On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 05:10 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Do you really want to compromise an entire group by overlooking unacceptable behaviour on the part of a single member, or a small group of members?
I doubt that anyone wants this.? ?That being said, on really high traffic groups that are unmoderated (and my that I mean that they're not reviewed on a message by message basis like this one is) it is very easy for something to slip through. Elsewhere where I am a moderator there is both a "spambot" that scans for spam, and where phrases can be added, and I think that already exists in some form here when I look at the activity log on the groups I moderate here and the lack of spam.? In addition, though, there is a "nasty word" filter that every message is passed through and that sanitizes same which, while convenient, I really don't support because what the person who set it up considers "nasty" is far more restrictive than what I think should be allowed in discussions among adults. As to the old, "But what about the children?!!," plaint, my response is, "But where are the parents who should be carefully monitoring the amount of time their child(ren) can spend online and exactly what they've been looking at and are allowed to look at."? ?Yes, it's a pain to do, but raising children involves all sorts of things that are pains to do. I also think it's laughable what many people sincerely believe children have never heard.? I can tell you that even in the 1970s I heard language used on the school bus that never exited the lips of my parents, and the fact that it didn't exit their lips told me all I needed to know about it's appropriateness in mixed company.? I think I can count on less than two hands the times I ever heard my father utter the F-word, and it was usually in response to an injury such as hitting a finger with a hammer (and where it's entirely appropriate, in my opinion.? No one said it better than Mark Twain:? "Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.") None of the above is meant, nor should be taken as, an attempt to justify gratuitous profanity on public forms (or elsewhere, for that matter). ? -- Brian
? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.
? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham
|
To format or not to format... Is that the question?
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 05:24 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
For those of us who read in plain text (I know I'm not the only one here), the all caps comes through but not the bold or the underlining.
As I have said, many times in the past, individual choices have consequences. Given that a great deal of content comes through in formatting, and HTML e-mail has been common for several decades now, I am also not responsible for those who choose to strip it. That's entirely your choice, but there are prices to be paid, and it's not any author's fault when their material is being converted to present in a way not originally composed. ? -- Brian
? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.
? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting - punctuation aside
On 6/7/2019 02:44, Tim Mitchell wrote:
Chris,
after that can you address the problem of not using capitals at all; i hate that. On one group I inhabit (not this one!) there are a few members who not only fail to capitalise properly but also dispense with any recognisable punctuation.
itsjustamatteroftrainingthebrainwhichisamazinglyadaptableinhumanbeingsnevermindotherspecies
ofcoursemanypeopledonotwanttohavetheirbrainstrained
theotherbenefitofpunctuationandconventionslikewordspacingisthatspellcheckerscancreativelymisinterprettypos
cheerstim
I have found that encrypting the message with an unknown key really improves legibility. C5T6xYQ4artNtVrpVGYiP6b2p2SCQE5rLnEFWSF2Q6ROQ+5qqh0Pv/7FJjOEi+RKUWsnKZv7pW1VB/x4Pr9lvQ== But you knew that. Best, Glenn
[ad trimmed by moderator]
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
On 6 Jun 2019 at 15:11, Brian Vogel wrote: I presume that people follow topics/threads *AND* that they read
the entire thread before they even think of responding to any single item in
it.? That's why threaded view came into existence in e-mail clients. No, I don't. I am a member of many groups (here and on Yahoo), and other mailing lists. Using the web for each such site is totally impractical, so I use an email client. Furthermore, I read emails normally in a batch every evening. In doing that I take them simply in date/time order, replying to each one that requires it as I reach it. I rely mostly on quoting in the message to tell me what is being replied to, as has already been discussed here, but when I reply I have not then seen any later replies in the same thread. However, my replies are not actually sent until I have been through the lot. This means that very occasionally I have to go back and amend or even delete a message waiting to be sent (I deleted one on this very topic this evening). I tihnk achieves most of what you intend, although I am still missing on any further replies sent after I download that day's batch of messages. I suspect not everyone working my way would bother to do that. Above,
that AND is not only in all caps but bold and underlined for a reason. For those of us who read in plain text (I know I'm not the only one here), the all caps comes through but not the bold or the underlining. Jim Fisher -- - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating) - political snippets, especially economic policy - misc. snippets, some political, some not Forget Google! I search with which doesn't spy on you [ mod note: see reply, split into new thread, "To format or not to format... Is that the question?" /g/GroupManagersForum/topic/32091851 ]
|
Re: Is there a filetype restriction?
There obviously is, but I'll be darned if I can find a list of allowed file types in this group's Wiki or any of the official Groups.io help or terms of service pages. I'd write Mark at [email protected]?to find out what file types are permitted (which will likely be a short list).? Please report back here on any information you receive. -- Brian
? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.
? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham
|
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 06:26 PM, Epicatt2 wrote:
Just wondering since such an option could be useful to have on any groups where youngsters may visit.
In a way the option does already exist, and it's called a Moderator. In a (mainly?) moderated group a moderator can and must stop any inappropriate material in its tracks and prevent it ever reaching other members either via the web UI or by email, and IMHO "stopping" means rejecting the message out of hand, not sanitising it. The rejection should (must?) include a clear message back to the originator stating in no uncertain terms why the message was rejected, with an unambiguous warning that any attempt to repeat the sending of unacceptable content will result in removal from the group. If a group is unmoderated (or the member concerned is unmoderated) then putting them on moderation has to be the first step. Again IMHO having an entire group, or just some members unmoderated does not absolve an owner or moderator from the responsibility of ensuring that members are behaving themselves and that the group is being properly run. Once the individual is on moderation then the "rule" in the paragraph above can apply. Bear in mind the Terms of Service that Frances linked.? I don't think an owner of moderator can or should try to weasel their way out of trouble by saying "it's nothing to do with me" or some variant thereof. I suspect that if Groups.io (i.e. Mark) realised that any given group was allowing material that was verboten to appear he would be within his rights to simply close it down. Owners and Moderators must consider the possible impact of their failing to perform due diligence on a group and its members. Do you really want to compromise an entire group by overlooking unacceptable behaviour on the part of a single member, or a small group of members? Chris
|
Hi
There are terms of service?
A link to word lists banned in other services -?
Frances --
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
/static/helpMore help: use the search button at the top of the Messages list.
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting - punctuation aside
Tim, your point made to Chris is well founded.
Any such non-punctuated messages such as the one as you included post could simply be rejected along with a message to the member indicating that the post was inappropriate for the reason that it was difficult to read. (If the member is not going to use capitals they should/must at least use spacing between words and punctuation to make their texts readable.)
An elaborated explanation for the above should be placed in the Guidelines for your group which advises that such posts will be rejected. This should eliminate the problem or at least vastly curtail it.
Regards,
Paul M.
CRL Owner / Moderator
==
|
Is there a filetype restriction?
I am running into a problem on one of my groups.?
A member tried to upload some files but was denied.? He asked if I
had restricted the file types since he could upload PDF's but no
other file type.? I then tried myself to upload the same 41 files
using first Waterfox and then Firefox and both times got a "unable
to connect":
"Unable to connect
Firefox can¡¯t establish a connection to the server at
209.145.176.7.
??? The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try
again in a few moments.
??? If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer¡¯s
network connection.
??? If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or
proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web."
The user then reported that he could upload all of the files
except 2 (one was a .7z archive file about 11mb in size).
The total size of the 41 files was about 42mb so it was well under
our free site 1gb file total limit and we do not have very many
files there so we are nowhere close to our limit.
When I checked the group settings I do? not see any restriction on
filetype or file size.? What am I missing?
Thank you.
Jim
|
Haven't seen anythng about one but, is there any sort of prohibited word list option on Groups.io that can be set up and turned on? Something that could maybe be set to automatically edit curse words to an ersatz word. Just wondering since such an option could be useful to have on any groups where youngsters may visit. Paul M. CostaRicaLiving /g/CostaRicaLiving==
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting - punctuation aside
Chris,
after that can you address the problem of not using
capitals at all; i hate that. On one group I inhabit (not this
one!) there are a few members who not only fail to capitalise
properly but also dispense with any recognisable punctuation.
itsjustamatteroftrainingthebrainwhichisamazinglyadaptableinhumanbeingsnevermindotherspecies
ofcoursemanypeopledonotwanttohavetheirbrainstrained
theotherbenefitofpunctuationandconventionslikewordspacingisthatspellcheckerscancreativelymisinterprettypos
cheerstim
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
Chris, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? In absolute terms, we're in agreement, but in day-to-day practical terms, we're not.? In this context, it seems to me that it's obvious that I'm replying to your post praising my statement about how to write but taking issue with my caveat.? Even if I hadn't written that out, I think most e-mail readers could follow it.? I presume that people follow topics/threads AND that they read the entire thread before they even think of responding to any single item in it.? That's why threaded view came into existence in e-mail clients. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The only time I cut breaks for all caps is for visually impaired individuals who've identified themselves as such at some point (and probably intermittently, since there will always be new members who don't know).? ?It is long standing net tradition that all caps, in cyber communication, means shouting.? Above, that AND is not only in all caps but bold and underlined for a reason.? ?It's not my fault if someone decides that they can reply to something without having caught up, and looks like a fool as a result.? You have obligations as a reader just as I do as a writer. -- Brian
? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.
? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham
|
Re: How much help do members need, and what kind?
Whilst I agree with most of what you say in your second paragraph, Chris, there is the other side.? I've seen several messages on this group which are incomprehensible without knowing to which message the writer is replying.? So to include the latest letter in the series is helpful to those who have not maybe been following the trend.? This letter might be an example....
FWIW IMHO,
Peter
On 06/06/2019 12:28, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 05:44 PM, Frances wrote:
I like to help edit the GMF wiki. I can point people to it or specific spots when they have a problem.
As do I. However, I get irked when members (not of GMF!) seem incapable of the most basic of functions, and / or don't even consult their own group's wiki. On occasions - admittedly fairly rare - when given specific guidance they still manage to get it wrong.
A perpetual problem on many (most?) groups seems to be a failure, appearing on occasions to be a blank refusal, to trim off reams of previous material so that the vast bulk of any post is yet another copy of what has been sent before. On a moderated group this can be caught by a moderator (although repeatedly having to trim peoples' posts does get tedious) but on an unmoderated group, although a moderator may edit a post to remove superflous material on the web UI, an over - long email has already been sent to members, very possibly eroding their data allowances.
Why is it some people are apparently incapable of selective quoting when posting by email? Is it a lack of capability or simple laziness?
Chris
[ad removed by moderator]
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
I get that. I just don't like being shouted at.
Best,
Glenn
On 6/6/2019 12:56, Larry McElhiney via Groups.Io wrote:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them change case.? (Slight mixing of metaphor.)
?
Sometimes we lose sight of what the audience wants and needs.? Mostly they want to communicate ideas using a Group like this.? If there is a too-rigid structure, they will often just move on.? Ultimately, for everyone we "teach" to do it the "right" way, two or more will come along and do it differently, in my experience.
?
Larry
?
"Learn from the mistakes of others, You'll never live long enough to make them all yourself!"?
?
(No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were quite inconvenienced.)
[excess quote and ad removed by moderator]
|
|
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 08:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
It's my responsibility, as a writer, to make sure that what I write can be followed within a self-contained message.?
Though I generally abhor Mission Statements I think people should print that sentence off and pin it on the wall in front of them. Pity it's too long to have as a screen saver.
?When it's a direct response to the last thing said, generally no quoting is necessary,
Although you do apply a caveat to that in your next sentence, by and large I would disagree. Just quoting a sentence from the post to which you are responding usually makes it much clearer to the reader. My preferred usage is the web UI, where is it much easier to refer back to a previous post than finding a previous email, but even then it only needs someone - just one - to put a message between the post to which you are responding and yours to sow uncertainty. A bit later Glenn Glazer wrote: let me know how to prevent people from putting subject lines in all caps...after that can you address the problem of not using capitals at all; i hate that. On one group I inhabit (not this one!) there are a few members who not only fail to capitalise properly but also dispense with any recognisable punctuation. Grrr.. Chris </grumpy>
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
Well, my friend would call me on skype and shout at me the response. That got my attention right quick. Lol! But since that is not an option here, maybe virtual shouting back? JK. I've ben guilty of doing that by accident so I need to watch my own self as well.
Blessings and happy Thursday
Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and ?tutorials go
and for hosting options go
to subscribe to the feed click
Our channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.
Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6 Jun 2019, at 10:57, Glenn Glazer wrote:
Once you solve this, let me know how to prevent people from putting subject lines in all caps...
Best,
Glenn
|
The same Apple Mail app which will not currently connect with Yahoo because of changes in the Yahoo Security.??
Larry
"Learn from the mistakes of others, You'll never live long enough to make them all yourself!"?
(No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were quite inconvenienced.)
On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 3:06:03 PM EDT, Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:
From Apple support:
"an attachment must be included in the body of an email message sent from the Apple Mail app, the option to add an attachment (as the AOL app does) is currently not available."
effed up, 'eh? Per usual for Apple.
|
Re: top posting vs bottomposting vs quoting
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them change case.? (Slight mixing of metaphor.)
Sometimes we lose sight of what the audience wants and needs.? Mostly they want to communicate ideas using a Group like this.? If there is a too-rigid structure, they will often just move on.? Ultimately, for everyone we "teach" to do it the "right" way, two or more will come along and do it differently, in my experience.
Larry
"Learn from the mistakes of others, You'll never live long enough to make them all yourself!"?
(No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were quite inconvenienced.)
On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 3:05:12 PM EDT, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
Once you solve this, let me know how to prevent people from putting
subject lines in all caps...
Best,
Glenn
|
From Apple support:
"an attachment must be included in the body of an email message sent from the Apple Mail app, the option to add an attachment (as the AOL app does) is currently not available."
effed up, 'eh? Per usual for Apple.
|
Frances
Epicatt2
Tim Mitchell
Sarah k Alawami
Larry McElhiney
KWKloeber