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Alexander,

... I think the current default behavior (send to Group) leads to
*very* unintuitive behavior in email clients (at least in GMail).

Everyone has their own idea of what's intuitive. Worse, each email interface seems to have its own idea of what the UI for replies ought to be.

Groups.io is set up the way it is because it has been a long-standing tradition for email lists to use the Reply-To header field to cause the default Reply action (of most interfaces) to reply to the List, when that is the style of the list (a discussion list).

For me (and others) that is the most natural/intuitive thing. If I'm conversing with an individual Reply goes to that individual, if I'm participating in a list Reply goes to that list. Gmail lets me know which is which by showing "via groups.io" when the sender is actually a list. That text doesn't always show in the list view, but it does in the preview or if you open the message in a new window.

There is an alternative.

Groups.io could use the List-Post header field instead of Reply-To. That would generally have the effect of causing the default Reply behavior to be reply to the individual. But it also means that to reply to the list - which is what I almost always actually want to do - requires using an alternate function. Which means that many posts I intended for the list will go to the individual instead, causing subsequent confusion.

No thank you.

Reply -> Sender, Reply all -> whole group is what I think 99% of
people would expect, and the default setting breaks that.

So set your group's Reply To setting to Sender.

Then you get that behavior. Except many email interfaces will show Reply List rather than (or in addition to) Reply All. Which is arguably even more precise.

Shal


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Rob,

I thought the whole idea was that those subgroups could be managed
semi-independently.

"Semi-independently". The important connection is that one must be a member of the primary group in order to be a member of any of its subgroups.

Some of the invite/add mechanisms have been enhanced to handle the primary group subscription simultaneously when inviting/adding to a subgroup. But it is possible that the Promote mechanisms haven't been given the same attention.

Shal



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Mona,

... but not when I send it from my email account (thunderbird) using
the same email addresses - it does not show at all in the activity nor
in the messages.

Having nothing show in the group's Activity log strongly implies that you sent the message To the wrong address.

Try clicking on or copy/pasting the Post: address from the bottom of your group's home page. The failed attempts could have had a rather subtle typo.

Also have a look in your email folders (in Thunderbird and/or at your service's email web site) for delivery failure notices. If you find any that correspond with your attempts those should contain an error code and text that may be helpful.

Shal


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Michael,

Yes I did that and in every case it said SENT.

"Sent" is conclusive.

It means that Groups.io's outbound server connected to the inbound server of the invitee's email service, delivered the invitation, and the inbound server reported "success" for the transaction.

At that point the invitee's email service has possession of the invitation - whether the invitee can him/herself find it there is completely out of Groups.io's (and your) control.

I sent the invites again and this time both of them did reply and join
the group.

Well that's good.

I am about to issue 20 new invites and will> see if there seems to be
a problem....that should be a meaningful sample.

If any of those end up with "Sent" status, but the invitee claims not to find it, about the best you can do is advise him/her on what to look for, and, if you are familiar with the service he/she is using, where to look for it.

It is possible that an invitee using a desktop or mobile app to read email may have to visit his/her service's web site to find the place where such messages are stored when they aren't put in his/her Inbox.

Shal


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Hi,

Thank you for your help. I'm following your advice indeed

I'm posting from the right address - as triple checked on the group member page
I'm posting to the right address - as triple checked on the group member page
There are no pending messages

I'm receiving an email I sent from the group topics webpage directly - it shows in messages and activities - but not when I send it from my email account (thunderbird) using the same email addresses - it does not show at all in the activity nor in the messages.

Mona

Yes I did that and in every case it said SENT.? ?The invitees both claim they did not receive them and that they checked junk folders, etc....but who knows.? I sent the invites again and this time both of them did reply and join the group.? ?I am about to issue 20 new invites and will see if there seems to be a problem....that should be a meaningful sample.

Thanks very much for the information in this thread. I'd just like to put my feedback or there that I think the current default behavior (send to Group) leads to *very* unintuitive behavior in email clients (at least in GMail). When you get a post, the client displays it *just* using the person's name as the "from", and so just replying to that email (as opposed to replying all) one would expect it would go just to the sender, not to the whole group.

Reply -> Sender, Reply all -> whole group is what I think 99% of people would expect, and the default setting breaks that.

Is it possible to have a subscribe form for subgroups?? ?That "subscribe to our group" you can embed on a website from the "promote" page on the main group.? I just assumed that same page would be on the subgroups and was surprised that it wasn't.? ?I thought the whole idea was that those subgroups could be managed semi-independently.? Can that code be tweaked for a subgroup? - or is there any other workaround?? I didn't realize that almost nothing can be embedded in a website like you can with Google groups.? ?Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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"Also, the general term "an error message" doesn't give much clue to anyone who might bed able to help you."

Also, Bob, not sure if your advice around greater specificity with "an error message" is in response to my OP but think so? Of course agree though in that post, I also included a screen shot with the specifics. ?Thanks again, to you and everyone here, for the advice. ?We were able to solve it albeit still with some slowness using different email providers.

Totally makes sense and thanks for the suggestion on the googleapps diagnostic. ?Worth noting that the receiving-network theory, with my own admittedly limited sample, might not be dispositive here. RCN is a largely national company now but, that aside, we had delays getting gmail addresses invites and confirmed as well.

Groups.io is pretty fast emitting email.? It's the path and final receiving network that are the issue.
There are applications that you can help you find where the delay(s) actually occur.
Also, the general term "an error message" doesn't give much clue to anyone who might bed able to help you.

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On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 07:53 PM, Barry Winer wrote:

I'm not sure what to think but, for whatever reason, there's some slowness with invites and email addresses confirmed as valid and responsive outside the groups.io platform?

I would be very surprised if groups.io failed to send the invitation immediately. Paste the message header of the delayed invitation into the analyzer found at?. This will tell you where it got held up.

I believe that some mail servers with limited capacity delay delivery of group messages for no other reason than they originate from the .io top-level domain.

Regards,
Bruce?
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For whatever it's worth, we solved the same problem (mine had the error code associated with an RCN email address) two ways. First, more time did do the trick. ?But, at more than an hour or two, I'm still a little surprised it would take that long to work its way through groups.io. ?I'd guess it should be much more immediate than that? ?Separately, had the subscribing member use another, more mainstream email address and that invite was received in about 15-20 minutes.

?

I'm not sure what to think but, for whatever reason, there's some slowness with invites and email addresses confirmed as valid and responsive outside the groups.io platform?

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Received from Shal Farley at 4/4/2019 11:57 PM UTC:

I'm thinking it would be a very good idea if the answer to this repetitive ... question were contained within the message sent to an Owner/Moderator who invites "too many" people at once.

But back to your suggestion - I know you know where the suggestion box is and how to use it.

Indeed, and I'll be glad to make a suggestion there... but I don't think I've ever seen the full notice given when "too many" people are invited to a group. Is it a banner seen on-line following inviting "too many" or is it an emailed notice? Could someone who has a copy either post it here or directly to me?

Thank you.

Jim H

I too am having group member invitations not be received.? I sent out 4 of them and 2 of them said they did not receive the invitations although regular email to those same addresses seem to work.? I have sent duplicate invites to the two who said they didn't get it and so far no indication they received it.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 06:07 PM, Jacqueline Serafin wrote:

Does anyone know if there is a way to have a calendar feed no longer be available to a subgroup member after they are removed from the group?

Check your Calendar settings for the subgroup.? The settings for a subgroup are pretty much independent of those for the main group.
?
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Short answer, Idunno, but actually is this an interesting question is a couple of contexts..
Scenario 1:? BobbySue not wanting the cal anymore if she self-unsubscribes from List-A.
Scenario 2:? BobbySue has been removed from a list by the owner/moderator for whatever reason and should also immediately be unsubscribed from the List-A cal for a very good reason.

Either example could have significant implications if it is a sensitive list, but in the second case I could see that being a big issue for a security or governing board list for example.
:-\
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I always send from my own email address as most of my list members aren't very savvy, so might not know the list owner address is me, but they all know my private email address. In addition, I don't use the groups.io web interface any more than I have to :)

So far, no bounces, or responses, from the private emails I sent - if those emails were just recently added to the bounce list. (However, I only sent those private messages yesterday evening, so they might have been received but not responded to yet.) I have one yahoo address that's been bouncing for a while with the same message of the mailbox being disabled, and my private message to her also bounced.

Holly