Hi all,

This week's change log, possibly covering Thanksgiving week as well:



Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

If there's anyone here who uses the API please identify and comment on any API-related changes that would be significant to API users. I don't and wouldn't know what to comment on.

CHANGE: Text changes to the Update File/Update Folder dialogs in the
Files section.

Had been Edit File/Edit Folder. The more significant change is the addition of a sentence under the Browse control that says what it does.

NEW: Added advanced subscription option badges to the Delivery column
in the Members page.

Thanks Frances!

CHANGE: Because of a policy change at Gmail, we are now re-writing the
From line for messages sent back to senders that have gmail.com
email addresses.

As many here noticed, the recent policy change at Gmail was the addition of a warning banner on received messages that are From yourself.
/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/28241984

CHANGE: Show your email address in the footers for digests and summary
emails.
CHANGE: Tweaked the wording a bit on the Yahoo transfer page.

Ok, I've got wiki pages to update.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

BUGFIX: We would not display messages correctly if they were plain
text only and had a really long line.
BUGFIX: Changed the included ICS attachment in event notification
emails to work around a Gmail bug that would sometimes display one
part of a repeating event with the wrong day.
BUGFIX: Made checkboxes for moderator/owner notifications screen
reader accessible.
NEW: If there is an error adding an email alias, don't collapse the
email alias display (which hides the error).
NEW: Use the group default time and date format settings when
generating event notice/reminder emails.
INTERNAL: Unbounced Cox.net members who had been bounced over the past
30 days (because of Cox's email issues).
NEW: Now tracking bounce probe deliveries.
BUGFIX: In some instances we would send a daily summary to a pending
subscriber.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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Alan,

I have a few groups that I am the owner of and I am subscribe to many
other groups. My question is when I change my email address will that
automatically update to the group ...

Yes.

In fact, changing your email address via your Account page is the only way to change your subscribed address.

The only thing else you can do is re-subscribe under the new address, but that loses the connection to your content and fails to carry forward your role (owner, moderator), permissions, or subscription options.

If your group is Premium a moderator of the group (possibly yourself) can edit your email address from your entry in the Members list of the group, but I'm not certain what ramifications that might have for your other group memberships. It is probably the same as editing it in your Account page, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

Shal


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If you change it on your Account page, it should be changed everyplace.? I haven't done this, so can't guarantee it, but according to the Wiki page here, it should be a snap.? Maybe someone that has can verify before you change it, in case there are any 'gotchas' to watch for.

Duane
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I need to change my email address and have a question. I have a few groups that I am the owner of and I am subscribe to many other groups. My question is when I change my email address will that automatically update to the group so I have created and subscribe to or do I need to go in and manually change that email address in each group I own and each group I am subscribe to?

Hmph.

Duane wrote:

It looks like Mark has a work-around, so you shouldn't see this any
more,

Hopefully this is not a harbinger of things to come, but there are indications (from an engineer at Gmail Mark contacted) that it might be.

Thus far I've been very happy (as a Gmail user) that they have chosen to accept messages that pass through mailing lists with intact From addresses, using their own Spam detection to override the sending service's DMARC policy.

A consequence of Mark's work-around, I no longer see my posts as From "me", they are now from someone named "Shal Farley via Groups.Io", but I suppose that's better than a big yellow warning banner.

The threat is that something like this might go into effect for messages posted by other users of Gmail, or messages via Groups.io generally. I would rue that because the work-around mangling of From addresses makes it more inconvenient to copy paste the sender's address if I want to reply privately by email.

Shal


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On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 01:46 PM, Howard Roseman wrote:

But it still says NC next to his name on the Member list, and I see no way to "confirm" him. Should I just delete and re-enter him?

Howard --

As Duane and Shal have mentioned, the account/email address you cited could not have been someone who responded to an invitation, otherwise he wouldn't have an NC badge.

The purpose of confirmation is to assure that the new member can receive groups.io emails at the address he signed up with. Until he actually responds to either an invitation or the confirmation email the potential subscriber will continue to be unable to participate in any groups. See /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Status-Badges-in-the-Members-List?for further details. As noted in the wiki, Premium groups can bypass this using Direct Add.

I find this a very desirable thing, as I don't want anybody joining my group that I am unable to contact offline. At the same time, many people (including me) are reluctant to click on links in emails that seem to have come out of nowhere. If you know this person and want to resolve the impasse, your best option is to contact them offline (telling them it's okay to click on the link), then send a new confirmation email per Shal's instructions.

Regards,
Bruce
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开云体育

I totally agree with you on this. I belong to a?game site that has chat. When the trolls are fed, they continue. When there is silence - they stop. ? So when you moderate their message instead of hitting reject, just hit delete. They will hear nothing back from you. Ilene? ? ? ? ?

A suggestion to go along with all the others: keep your interaction with the offender to an absolute minimum. The quickest way to discourage activity like this is to make your group a black hole to the offenders. I suggest keeping new members moderated. When you identify a repeat offender who signs up under new names, don't reply, just shut them off. They join, post offensively, and nothing happens-- no reply, the post is not distributed to the group. The only response is silence. This is the most discouraging situation imaginable to a troll.They quickly move on to someplace that gives them the angry response they crave.
Best, Marv

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 06:07 PM, Beth Weld wrote:

I am the owner of a group with subgroups, and we have a moderator set up in the main group who can create subgroups.? She just created her first subgroup, and as an owner I thought I should be able to see it. I can direct add a new member and can add her to that subgroup, but it isn't in my list in Your Groups nor in the Subgroups list in main over on the left hand side. I can see it in main/admin/subgroups. Of course I can't verify the settings since I can't get in there

As the owner of the main group, you should have access to everything.? Unless you are a member of the subgroup(s), you won't see it/them on your list of groups.? To get to the subgroup, you need to select the Subgroups menu on the left (NOT the one under the Admin option), then choose the subgroup you're interested in.? Once you select that, you will have the 'standard' menu on the left (Home, Admin, etc.), but it will be related to the subgroup.? The Home button should have "Parent Owner" on the blue badge next to it (or your status if you're a member).

Duane
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On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 09:13 AM, Beth Weld wrote:

Thanks Bruce,
The moderator did direct add one owner, but I don't think that we should have to be manually added.? As an owner I should have access to everything shouldn't I?? Maybe I'll bug Mark and ask.
Beth

?Beth,

Are you actually the "Owner" of the sub-group?

It might be that the moderator that created the sub-group is the "Owner". Perhaps this is working as intended.

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Thanks Bruce,
The moderator did direct add one owner, but I don't think that we should have to be manually added.? As an owner I should have access to everything shouldn't I?? Maybe I'll bug Mark and ask.
Beth

Allen,

Does this mean that they couldn't be added to an existing group that
already has messages?

Whether the destination group already has messages or not isn't the issue. The problem is that there's no mechanism available to users that can bulk import message content, or other content (other than the Yahoo Group transfer mechanism).

Presumably Groups.io support could do it, probably using tools created in the development of the Yahoo Transfer mechanism.

If so I would expect it to have the same effect: the bulk copied messages would get assigned message numbers as they are added to the group (possibly intermingling with normal posting to the group) but would retain their original posting date so that they sort in the Messages/Topics lists as if posted on those dates.

A different approach was used by a group migrating from Big Tent, but that mechanism would have the defect of giving the old posts new dates (and probably, a new poster).
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/11476

Shal


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Howard,

But it still says NC next to his name on the Member list, and I see no
way to "confirm" him. Should I just delete and re-enter him?

No need to do that.

Click on his row in the Members list to open his subscription page. On a Basic (free) group down at the bottom there's a button to "Send Confirmation Email". Once you send that he can confirm his email address by replying to the confirmation request.

As Duane said, responding to your invitation would also have confirmed his email address, so this member must have used the email command or the "Join" or "Request" button on your group's web home page.

Shal


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Michael,

Many groups exist for our profession (libraries), and many I use on
Google+ and Facebook have post link previews.

Link previews has been suggested, but it didn't get much attention:
and seconded:


The original post (8607) is locked, but you could chime in on the "second" (15611) or start your own topic about it. Also, feel free to kick it around and refine it here before posting about it "officially" in beta.

Instead of using "new topic" and posting an email, there would be a
link to post a "Web link with preview" or something, and then you'd
see an interface for that. Posting would appear on the Web site for
our groups, not an email.

That actually sounds like something else entirely. More like the Links section of a Yahoo Group, but with auto-generated previews.

I like better Maria's idea of having the "link with preview" being a tool of the message composition window and otherwise handled inline as normal message content. I'd support having that tool in Wiki page composition as well.

Shal


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tiapam,

Is groups.io just super caps/lower case blind and it did not even
register as a change but did change?

I think Groups.io simply registered the change without noticing what had changed.

That it (properly) ignores the case for incoming email processing is almost an unrelated fact; the only connection being that it dare not allow two groups to be created whose name differs only in the case used for one or more letters.

Also wondering about any tips or philosophies for naming groups,
including but not limited to the capital vs. lowercase letters issue.

You may notice that this group's name uses mixed case to demarcate embedded words: GroupManagersForum. That choice was made long ago by the founder of GMF's sister group at Yahoo Groups, but I'd likely make the same choice today.

A more traditional approach would be the use of hyphens, as in Group-Managers-Forum, which is initially more readable, but gets tiresome (to my eye) with repeated use, whereas the use of embedded capitals reads more like a proper noun (which it is) than a phrase. The other common approach, using underscores to join words, is not available in Groups.io (due to domain naming restrictions).

I have some longer names but might wind up with subgroups, so looking
for ways to shorten that still seem clear.

Subgroups are where the domain name restrictions come in - the primary group name becomes the unifying domain name for the primary group and all of the subgroups. For example, in Groups.io's beta group there are:

[email protected] -- primary
[email protected] -- a subgroup for API users

You can give a more descriptive name for the primary group if that helps. For example, in my PTA group I changed the primary group from "main" to "members" - because all PTA unit members are eligible to be members of the primary group. I then have subgroups for "board", "teachers", "staff", and ad-hoc subgroups for various volunteer efforts. That makes email addresses like "members at PTA-unit.groups.io" and "board at PTA-unit.groups.io" read naturally, and makes it fairly clear who you are addressing.

Shal


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I created a few groups in anticipation of doing some organizing of new groups and possible migration of existing groups. Initially I did all lower case names/email addresses but then I tried one with a mixture of both and I was kind of surprised that it id not revert to all lower case or all caps, since for an email address it should not matter.? I then went into an already created group that was all lower case and was able to change some letters in the name/email address to capitals and the change "took", which also kind of surprised me.? Is groups.io just super caps/lower case blind and it did not even register as a change but did change???

Also wondering about any tips or philosophies for naming groups, including but not limited to the capital vs. lowercase letters issue.? I have some longer names but might wind up with subgroups, so looking for ways to shorten that still seem clear.?

Hello,

Apologies if this has been discussed before.. I am a new group user, and owner of a new group and subgroups at ..

I am a former librarian (retired) and former Webmaster, among other jobs/gigs.

Many groups exist for our profession (libraries), and many I use on Google+ and Facebook have post link previews. I've enclosed two (2) screenshots to show what I am talking about.
As you can see, the post goes online (Web/Internet), and includes a post preview image, link, and often the headline of the post link article/item.
When you post to Twitter, a platform, the same thing occurs.


Since groups.io is both an email platform and it's Web-based, I wonder why that functionality couldn't be included here on groups.io.

Instead of using "new topic" and posting an email, there would be a link to post a "Web link with preview" or something, and then you'd see an interface for that. Posting would appear on the Web site for our groups, not an email.

To see the Web posts to our groups, members would visit the Web site for the groups, and click a link to see Web posts etc.
I wonder if anyone else is interested in this, or the groups.io team or developers.

Best,

Michael aka DrWeb

If you send an invitation that is accepted, you should never see the NC badge.? That only shows up for people that join groups.io on their own and don't confirm their email address by clicking on the link in the email they receive for that purpose.

On Premium groups, an admin can direct add and confirm email addresses, but not on a free group.

Duane
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Just sent out invitations and people are joining the group. One of them somehow omitted his first name so I added it for him. But it still says NC next to his name on the Member list, and I see no way to "confirm" him. Should I just delete and re-enter him?

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Sean T. Allen wrote:

Does this mean that they couldn't be added to an existing group that already has messages?

Yes, that's what it means.

There have been rumors that Mark can upload a message archive in mbox format to a group. But several people have recently been directed to ask him about this (usually people trying to migrate from MailMan or Big Tent). Only one or two have ever reported that he did it...and that was two years ago or more.??/g/GroupManagersForum/search?q=import+mbox

Even then, this was to transfer a new group. I don't know if the messages can be interleaved so they remain in date-order, as you would probably expect them to.
?
Bottom line:? No one here can do it, and your best source for information on this is to contact support.

Regards,
Bruce
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