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When I create a poll, I almost always have an "other" choice because I know I won't have every option that could be used.? A minor change, like an additional choice, doesn't have much effect.? Yes, some may have chosen the new choice, but would have likely used "other" initially.? I just use them as information, never for an official, binding election.

Duane
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Bruce,

The editing retionale as you've explained makes sense to me.

Thanx,

Paul M.
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On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 06:33 PM, Michael Pavan wrote:

I have Subscribers/Members who are bouncing and I've sent Bounce Probes which have not been responded to.

Have you looked at your "Bouncing" members to try to get some clue as to why they are bouncing? I will accept that in some cases the information is less than entirely helpful, but in many cases it reveals (one way or another) that the recipient account no longer exists.

On the group I moderate we had > 600 bouncers, and I simply finished up deleting about 500 of the memberships in question. So far no - one has complained.

In addition, I cannot work out from your posts on this subject if you are conflating bounce problems with messages being interpreted as spam, which is an entirely separate problem.

Either way there is a finite limit to the time and effort I (and my fellow moderators) will expend trying to micromanage members; ultimately they have to take responsibility for their own actions, or lack of them.

Chris

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Patty Sliney wrote:

it's possible that the unsubbed list member will miss out on that 3 day window they have, to restore themselves.? That window should be set to 7 days.

Mark has just extended this to 7 days:


Duane
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Received from Duane at 10/3/2018 04:02 PM UTC:

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Jim Higgins wrote:

This is something that Y! did right.

Not really. The only time I edit a poll is if I think of an additional answer that may be selected by a lot of people. The existing choices don't change, so aren't completely void, though may not be completely accurate either.

But accuracy matters!

It's easy enough to let folks know that the options have changed, so they can change their answer if they want to. I haven't tried changing existing choices, so I don't know what would happen with your example.

Duane

There's a change notice sent. But what percentage of those who have already voted will read the change notice? Not enough based on my experience with communicating anything via group email.



After receipt of your reply, I created a poll in one of my groups.

Initial poll: Which do you like better? 1) Chocolate Cake, 2) Brussels Sprouts

I and one other member voted within a couple of minutes. Two votes for chocolate cake.

Then I thought of "an additional answer that may be selected by a lot of people," so I edited the poll...

Edited poll: Which do you like better? 1) Chocolate Cake, 2) Brussels Sprouts, 3) My child

I changed my vote to "My child."

I waited about an hour... and then closed the poll.

Results? One vote for My Child, one for chocolate cake.

Had I waited a couple of days before changing the poll, I'm fairly sure the one other guy who voted - someone I know pays attention - would have either changed his vote or phoned me to ask "What the heck?" Many others who pay far less attention than he does would have voted in the initial poll for cake or sprouts and many of those wouldn't have noticed when the poll changed, or would see the title on the change message and assume it was just a reminder so they wouldn't even read it much less change their votes. So had I taken votes for several days before changing and then waited several more before closing there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there would be many votes for Chocolate Cake and not so many for My child.

But never mind... if I run a poll and need to change something midstream I can delete the first poll and start a new one. Good luck to the pollsters who don't understand that midstream changes make for inaccurate polls. I mean, why run one if it's going to be run in a manner that assures inaccuracy? Not to mention the inaccuracies that are outside our (and Gio's) control, such as self-selected responders.

Jim H

Thank you Bruce that was just the answer I was looking for! I went ahead and began the transfer.
Thanks...... Bill

I would prefer to be able to tell them that, alternatively they can send an email to:
[email protected]

Is this an option?
Bouncing status reflects groups.io's ability to deliver messages, not receive them. For example, if a subscriber's mailbox is full, it is possible for that subscriber to post messages to the group while being unable to receive. Establishing an "unbounce" address would not help situations like this and will only cause accounts to immediately start bouncing again.

In other words, it would be no more or less effective than replying to a Bounce Probe - which is exactly my point, just that it would be easy and more likely to get to the bounced Subscriber/Member.

I wasn’t trying to solve everything about this problem, just that in this case Bounce Probes often are not received and/or found by Subscribers/Members. Such a ‘command’ email address could be a more successful alternative to the Bounce Probe. It would not be a replacement for the Bounce Probe, just another tool to try (manual, for when automatic has failed).

Other aspects of the problem which even Bounce Probes also fail to remedy, such as a full mailbox, could maybe be addressed by including that explanation in the Bounce notices sent to Subscriber/Member and Owner, as well as in the Bounce Probe (and so notified, the Owner could include it in their private email outreach, perhaps with text suggested by Groups.io).

Received from Bill Bradley at 10/3/2018 06:05 PM UTC:

I am a owner/moderator and subscriber of various io groups and I am transferring a group this week. I was wondering when the members of my Y group will get a notification email to switch over if I initiate the transfer today? Still running 2 weeks in queue?
(all preliminary steps have been completed).

I only have 150 members and will be meeting many of them this Sunday at our monthly meeting to announce the switch. I would rather them receive an email from me rather than groups first but don't want to delay.

Thank you in advance
Bill Bradley

I don't think anything replaces a message from you to the original Y! group sent as a "Special "Message" so all receive it... if for no other reason than that they should hear it from you first... and should hear it BEFORE it happens. Whether they ALL read any message you send (or that Gio sends later) is questionable, but that's the same for a message via Yahoo vs one via Groups.io.

I suggest a "Special Message" sent to the Y! group ASAP... followed by an announcement and maybe a Q&A session on Sunday. And later on some will still be completely surprised.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim H

Resolving a bounce condition requires action on the member's side of things. They or their email provider have to do something so that the provider does not bounce incoming emails sent from groups.io.
Until that is done, bounce probes are useless (other than proving the messages are still being bounced).

Especially if the Subscribe/Member never sees them.

There is good explanation here -> /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Help-Mock-up#Bounce-Handling

Understood, interesting - but useless to Subscribers/Members if they never see, read, or understand them.

The member sending an email to groups.io would not do anything as groups.io cannot do anything about the member's email provider that is bouncing the emails.

It would resurrect an account from the ‘virtual limbo’ and restart trying to deliver messages to the Subscriber/Member again.

I see the GroupName+unbounce@... email address as having the exact same effect as responding to a Bounce Probe, without the often insurmountable burden of the Subscriber/Member having to find the likely also mis-marked as a SPAM message Bounce Probe email, as it would be in a message from the Owner’s private email address and likely would have been received in their Inbox.

Plus if anyone, not necessarily that particular Subscriber/Member, had successfully interacted with that Email Provider to recognize Groups.io as NOT as SPAM ENGINE, such a Subscriber/Member would be all set. My thought is that most of us use Email Providers that other persons also use, meaning that not every client of every Email Provider that incorrectly labeled Groups.io as a SPAM ENGINE would have to educate every Email Provider.

Bill -- Go to the transfer page and select your group from the drop-down "In Process" menu.?

On the resulting page, unclick the box that says Send a Message to your Members, then click on Update Transfer.

This will inhibit the subscriber "transfer success" email and allow you to send everyone your own custom message instead.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 01:33 PM, Michael Pavan wrote:

I would prefer to be able to tell them that, alternatively they can send an email to:
[email protected]

Is this an option?

Bouncing status reflects groups.io's ability to deliver messages, not receive them. For example, if a subscriber's mailbox is full, it is possible for that subscriber to post messages to the group while being unable to receive. Establishing an "unbounce" address would not help situations like this and will only cause accounts to immediately start bouncing again.

Regards,
Bruce?
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I am a owner/moderator and subscriber of various io groups and I am transferring a group this week. I ?was wondering when the members of my Y group will get a notification email to switch over if I initiate the transfer today? Still running 2 weeks in queue?
(all preliminary steps have been completed).

I only have 150 members and will be meeting many of them this Sunday at our monthly meeting to announce the switch. I would rather them receive an email from me rather than groups first but don’t want to delay.

Thank you in advance
Bill Bradley

Michael,
Resolving a bounce condition requires action on the member's side of things.? They or their email provider have to do something so that the provider does not bounce incoming emails sent from groups.io.
Until that is done, bounce probes are useless (other than proving the messages are still being bounced).
There is good explanation here ->?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Help-Mock-up#Bounce-Handling
The member sending an email to groups.io would not do anything as groups.io cannot do anything about the member's email provider that is bouncing the emails.
Thanks
Toby

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Dave,
It's unlikely that the account 'disappeared'.? I assume you have already looked at
Admin -> Member -> Activity History
Admin -> Activity -> search for various names/emails of this member
If there are no clues there, you can email support and ask them to look into what happened.? The logging on groups.io is pretty good based on Mark explaining who did what when on past issues.
Toby

I have Subscribers/Members who are bouncing and I've sent Bounce Probes which have not been responded to.

If I send them an email from my personal (non-Groups.io) email address, can I do better than to:
-Send them another Bounce Probe.
and say:
-You are bouncing.
-Bounce Probes sent to you have not been responded to.
-Those Bounce Probes may have gone to your SPAM or JUNK folder, you should try to find the latest Bounce Probe which I just sent and respond to it.

I would prefer to be able to tell them that, alternatively they can send an email to:
[email protected]

Is this an option?
If not, has it been suggested yet?
If so, what is the status of the suggestion?

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Beth Weld wrote:

Sorry, I have read the help and other topics, but I'm still struggling with inserting a ToC for a Wiki.?

If you do a message archive search on "wiki toc" you will get lots of hits on this topic.

The bottom line is that the TOC functionality in the wiki editor is cumbersome at best. If you're conversant with HTML at all, you might be less frustrated in the long run with a manually-created bulleted list and a series of anchor tags.

Good luck,
Bruce?
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On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Epicatt2 wrote:

The only way around that that I can see then would be to delete the post and re-post it with the changes.

Please note that when you edit a post in the message archive, it also gets sent out again, with text at the top saying something like "edited message follows."?For group owners, there is an option to disable this, but it always gets re-sent to the person who originally posted it.

That of course would not delete the original post as first sent to those members receiving the post via Daily Digest or Individual Emails.

And that is the crux of the issue, if you want to avoid "he said she said" arguments within the group. If we're going to permit subscribers to edit their posts at all, an audit trail is a necessary feature.?

Regards,
Bruce?
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On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 09:32 AM, psb b wrote:

P.S. ?Is there a way to eliminate permanently those 2 little dash marks that appear before the customized signature? ?Thank you again!

No, those are the signature separation marks.? You don't have to have an automatic signature on the site, but they'll be there if you do.? Your email client may also add them even if you don't enable them on site.

Duane
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On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Jim Higgins wrote:

This is something that Y! did right.

Not really.? The only time I edit a poll is if I think of an additional answer that may be selected by a lot of people.? The existing choices don't change, so aren't completely void, though may not be completely accurate either.? It's easy enough to let folks know that the options have changed, so they can change their answer if they want to.? I haven't tried changing existing choices, so I don't know what would happen with your example.

Duane
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