Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
Yep ... I get anyone's mail who tries to use the miz.elly addy without a dot. I was told it was because I had the addy first (with the dot) Yahoo knows about this now and they don't seem to be inclined to change anything about the dot issue.
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-----Original Message----- From: Shal Farley Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 11:20 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [GMF] Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses Ken, Well I don't want to start trading insults, but I am somewhat dismayed
by the cavalier attitude to standards being displayed by some
participants of this thread. I've cited the relevant standard. If you think there is some standard being subverted, please cite it. there has most certainly been a problem with the use or not of a dot
in the user part of the email address (i.e. before the @). In Merle's case the dot was a factor. The two different spellings of Merle's Gmail address (with and without dot) were entered into Groups.io which created two separate accounts for them. Merle was ultimately able to resolve the issue by logging in using the alternate spelling and making corrections. In Ellen's case the problem was a typo. The dot was not a factor because the same result would have occurred with or without it. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Messages are bounced by the receiving server, that? means the server where the destination email account resides. I find that the Road Runner (.....rr.com) seems to bounce emails more often than many others.? They also use excuses like "too many emails during this period" and other excuses for lack of service to throttle incoming traffic. This is not a new thing; it has bee going on for years --
Bob Bellizzi
Founder, Fuchs Friends??
Founder & Executive Director,?
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Disregard this.? After further investigating only a few emails are bouncing and I think they are maybe not valid emails. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Sandra Pickens-Gmail
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 11:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GMF] Bouncing again! ? ?All my members that are @triad.rr.com are bouncing again!
message: Name@...? is bouncing via system
whatever was done to fix this has been undone:(? ?
Anyone else seeing this?
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Thank you.? Your directions worked perfectly!?
Excellent!
?
dd
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From: Duane
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo
?
On
Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 06:50 AM, Don Dawson wrote:
How / where do I do the $10 upgrade? Under the drop down
list under Admin, select Upgrade.? The page that opens will have a summary
of your storage usage.? Click the "View/Change Plan" button on the
right.? The "Transfer Plan" is the 3rd one down the list of options.?
Select "Upgrade" on the right of that and set it up. Duane --
Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button
at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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Re: How to move Active (but apparently abandoned by unresponsive group owner) Yahoo Groups???
George, Is there a way to port those groups over to groups.io even though I am
not a group owner? To use the easy group transfer mechanism you must be at least a moderator of the group with these two privileges: Invite and add members Add, remove, and change moderator privileges Some of these groups have been active for close to 20 years and I
would hate to lose the collection of stored information in them. You can use PG Offline to make a personal copy to your computer. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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?All my members that are @triad.rr.com are bouncing again!
message: Name@...? is bouncing via system
whatever was done to fix this has been undone:(? ?
Anyone else seeing this?
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How to move Active (but apparently abandoned by unresponsive group owner) Yahoo Groups???
I belong to several active
Yahoo Groups, one of which was recently ported over to groups.io.
I had emailed the owners of those remaining
active groups about moving their groups off of Yahoo, only to be
ignored or receive no response from them.
Now, a few of the other Yahoo groups have suddenly
disappeared, and only 4 of my other subscribed groups remain.
Is there a way to port those groups over to groups.io even though
I am not a group owner?? Some of these groups have been active for
close to 20 years and I would hate to lose the collection of
stored information in them.
Thanks!
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Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
Ken, Well I don't want to start trading insults, but I am somewhat dismayed
by the cavalier attitude to standards being displayed by some
participants of this thread. I've cited the relevant standard. If you think there is some standard being subverted, please cite it. there has most certainly been a problem with the use or not of a dot
in the user part of the email address (i.e. before the @). In Merle's case the dot was a factor. The two different spellings of Merle's Gmail address (with and without dot) were entered into Groups.io which created two separate accounts for them. Merle was ultimately able to resolve the issue by logging in using the alternate spelling and making corrections. In Ellen's case the problem was a typo. The dot was not a factor because the same result would have occurred with or without it. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Under the admin menu, in the Invitations screen, there's a button to show Sent Invitations.? I like to keep track of who I've got outstanding invitations to via this list.? Is it okay to remove members from this list, once they've accepted?? I want to keep the list short, but I don't want to impact anyone's membership by dropping them from this list.
Also, some members have multiple email addresses.? I'd like to have them accept with only one and then drop the others.? Will that prevent them from joining with the other email account?? I'll likely have to discuss how our board wants to handle this, but it would help a lot if I could take them some answers to questions I am certain they will ask.
Thanks.
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Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
Well I don't want to start trading insults, but I am somewhat dismayed by the cavalier attitude to standards being displayed by some participants of this thread.
The Internet rose to prominence over the alternatives like Compuserve, AOL and even Apple's and Microsoft's attempts at creating their own proprietary networks (so unsuccessful I cannot even remember their names) just because it was based on standards that everyone could and did use. So don't dismiss 'standards' as being something rather irrelevant and able to be subverted at will, because that's what it is, whatever you may like to think.
Semantics aside, I have no idea what Google's rules are. I only commented on what has been stated here and far from being the 'nonsense' you wish to believe, there has most certainly been a problem with the use or not of a dot in the user part of the email address (i.e. before the @). It is also a fact that a previous post on this Group (probably to this very topic) indicated the poster believed that the dot was irrelevant and ignored which is the exact misunderstanding to which I was referring and which can lead to the exact problem being discussed. This is not wild speculation on my part.
I don't wish to continue the debate, but the Internet is already awash with problems caused by the lack of adherence to standards and the promotion of such 'idiosyncratic cleverness' (Apple's words) here is symptomatic of the problem although to be honest, I expected a more mature understanding of the subject on here. Oh well.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
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UKenGB,
> However, as someone else mentioned, although Google (and other email
> providers) might see it as their right to be able to subvert the
> standards ...
It isn't a case of subversion. Gmail's usage is compliant with the standard.
From rfc5322:
3.4.1. ?Addr-Spec Specification
??An addr-spec is a specific Internet identifier that contains a
??locally interpreted string followed by the at-sign character ("@",
??ASCII value 64) followed by an Internet domain.
...
??The local-part portion is a domain-dependent string. ?In addresses,
??it is simply interpreted on the particular host as a name of a
??particular mailbox.
There is nothing in the specification requiring that two different spellings of a local part either SHOULD or MUST represent different mailboxes.
And in fact aliased addresses are quite common. Yahoo Mail, as one example, has the "disposable email address" feature which allows a user to create many aliases for their own mailbox.
> But can they be absolutely sure that no-one else operating those
> servers might also try to get clever clever in a way that conflicts
> and then it all breaks down. The only way email works
Yes, that domain owner can be absolutely sure. No other server gets to decide which mailbox corresponds to a given local part in their domain.
> In the example we're discussing, the user of one of those addresses is
> under the mistaken belief that the dot makes no difference and hence
> takes no care when entering their email address to be stored somewhere
> and may or may not include the dot.
Nonsense.
We've no idea what beliefs the other person may have held. And in any case whether she'd used mizelly or miz.elly the result would have been the same: mistaken delivery to Ellen. The dot was not a factor in what happened in Ellen's case.
Shal
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Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
Well yes indeed, Microsoft is a prime example of not abiding by even their own standards. However, I did not say standards cannot be changed, just that there's a right and a wrong way to try and change them. But I won't bother repeating it all again.
Ken ?G i l l e t t
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On 29 Jul 2018, at 16:22, Gerald Boutin < groupsio@...> wrote:
The internet is still working and Microsoft has been doing this for a long time. Standards do change. If you're big enough, you get a big say in how they change.
[excess quote trimmed by moderator]
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Peter, Wondering if I could ask Groups.io to do a second transfer of the
member list for that group, I followed the instructions at the bottom
of the Groups.io notification and wrote to [email protected]
After three weeks, still no response. I realize you said it was water under the bridge, but for anyone else in that position I think the procedure is to go to the In Process page and delete the completed transfer record. Then you can initiate a new transfer. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Hi, Shal, on 7/29/2018 you replied to Gary, below about a second
transfer attempt.
Thank you for answering that question.
I had a similar situation.? I approved the transfer process when I
realized
that I still had the "transfer members" box unchecked.?
Wondering if I could ask Groups.io to do a second transfer of the
member list for that group, I followed the instructions at the
bottom
of the Groups.io notification and wrote to [email protected].??
After three weeks, still no response.
I ended up manually inviting the members of that group.? So its
water
under the bridge, but I appreciate your prompt responses on this
list.
Peter
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Gary,
Well, I already started the transfer -
without members - and I don't know if I can go back and transfer
members after the fact.
You can. Or before you say "go" in Step 4 you can change any of
the content checkboxes and Update the transfer instructions.
If the content transfer completes without the members (their email
addresses from the Y!Group) added to the Groups.io group then
their content is disassociated from their account, meaning that
they can't edit or delete their content. That's true whether you
transfer them later or invite them, or however they join later.
Shal
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Andrew, is there the equivalent of a permalink to a photo that will not change
when other photos are added/deleted or the photo name is changed? Apparently not, according to Bruce's tests. It is something I wished for long ago, but hasn't happened yet: That thread is locked, but perhaps the topic of Permalinks to resources should be brought up again in beta. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 04:34 PM, Andrew Dumbleton wrote:
However, the photo number appears to rely on the photo number as determined by name order and with the ability to change the name and add or delete photos (quite expected photo album tasks), this would then seem to result in different links to the album photos. Is this correct...
Yes, it seems to be correct. I was able to change the "photonumber" by simply editing its description.
...and if so, is there the equivalent of a permalink to a photo that will not change when other photos are added/deleted or the photo name is changed?
I've been fiddling around with this for the last 20 minutes, right-clicking and saving download links and such. So far the answer has been no...the URLs for each photo seem to be dynamically generated. Hope this helps, Bruce -- The system Help is your friend.?? /static/help
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I have seen the following advice regarding linking to album photos. ¡®Each photo in your group has a URL of the form:/g/GROUPNAME/photo/ALBUMNUMBER/PHOTONUMBER?(starting at 0)¡¯However, the photo number appears to rely on the photo number as determined by name order and with the ability to change the name and add or delete photos (quite expected photo album tasks), this would then seem to result in different links to the album photos. Is this correct, and if so, is there the equivalent of a permalink to a photo that will not change when other photos are added/deleted or the photo name is changed? -- Regards, Andrew Dumbleton
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Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
UKenGB, However, as someone else mentioned, although Google (and other email
providers) might see it as their right to be able to subvert the
standards ... It isn't a case of subversion. Gmail's usage is compliant with the standard. From rfc5322: 3.4.1. Addr-Spec Specification An addr-spec is a specific Internet identifier that contains a locally interpreted string followed by the at-sign character ("@", ASCII value 64) followed by an Internet domain. ... The local-part portion is a domain-dependent string. In addresses, it is simply interpreted on the particular host as a name of a particular mailbox. There is nothing in the specification requiring that two different spellings of a local part either SHOULD or MUST represent different mailboxes. And in fact aliased addresses are quite common. Yahoo Mail, as one example, has the "disposable email address" feature which allows a user to create many aliases for their own mailbox. But can they be absolutely sure that no-one else operating those
servers might also try to get clever clever in a way that conflicts
and then it all breaks down. The only way email works Yes, that domain owner can be absolutely sure. No other server gets to decide which mailbox corresponds to a given local part in their domain. In the example we're discussing, the user of one of those addresses is
under the mistaken belief that the dot makes no difference and hence
takes no care when entering their email address to be stored somewhere
and may or may not include the dot. Nonsense. We've no idea what beliefs the other person may have held. And in any case whether she'd used mizelly or miz.elly the result would have been the same: mistaken delivery to Ellen. The dot was not a factor in what happened in Ellen's case. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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osvclua, The transfer "from" box has wired the domain "yahoo.com" and cannot be
changed. Ignore it and put your group's name in anyway. The invite you send in Step 2 will bring the transfer agent to the correct group. Shal -- Help: /static/helpMore Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiEven More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
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Re: Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses
On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 12:07 PM, UKenGB wrote:
It is WRONG for organisations like Google to think they can operate on their own set of rules as it only applies to them, because that's not actually how it is. Standards are not there to be ignored and subverted. Without them, the Internet would cease to function.?
The internet is still working and Microsoft has been doing this for a long time. Standards do change. If you're big enough, you get a big say in how they change. ? -- Gerald
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Hello:
? ? I want to transfer my group hosted in yahoogroups.com.ar (pease note the ".ar" (argentina) domain.
The transfer "from" box has wired the domain "yahoo.com" and cannot be changed.
Is there a way of doing it?
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Shal Farley
UKenGB
Bruce Bowman