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Date

Question on Polls

 

I have just moved a group over from Yahoo where the Polls seem to be separate from messages.? We use Polls extensively to conduct business, and we need to keep the poll results for legal reasons. In groups.io they seem to be part of the topics/messages area instead of in their own space which means finding and keeping them is going to be a challenge.?

What am I missing or how do other groups manage this?
Thanks
Beth


Re: Transfer from Yahoo #transfer #yahoo

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thank you for the direction (below).? I can¡¯t get it to work.? UGH!
?
How / where do I do the $10 upgrade?? I¡¯ve tried several things to find it and strike out.
?
Thank you again.
?
dd
?

From: Shal Farley
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 12:52 PM
To: GMF
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo
?
dd,
?
I am the Owner of the group.? I did as you describe below (Moderators tab) and it displays 4 moderators.? 3 of them are me of which one is the owner (me).
?
Look at the Membership menu and see if you can switch to your owner membership:


The screenshot shows me having three memberships, each using a distinct email address, and each with a different role (member, moderator and owner). By selecting the blue-crown membership I can access the group's features as owner.
?
If you don't have a blue crown among the memberships shown there, then your ownership must be held in a different Yahoo account ("Yahoo Profile" in the Manage Members list). Sign out, then sign in with that other ID.
?
If you can't sign in to that other Yahoo account, there is a means to transfer your owner membership from the other account to your active one, but that's a bit more involved. Check for details, or ask there.
Can I simply create the GroupsIO thing and invite people?
?
Yes, of course. But here are a few hints:
  • If your Y!group has more than 1000 members you'll need a tool to export the entire list. Again refer to Y!GMF for info.
  • If you Invite (or Direct Add) more that 20 addresses in a 24-hour period your action may be held pending review. The review is normally fairly swift but I don't know how that may be impacted while Mark is on vacation.
  • It may be worth it to you to pay the $10 fee to upgrade to Premium for one month (the "group transfer plan") so that you are able to use Direct Add rather than invite.
?
Shal
?

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Sidebar - Gmail dotted email addresses

 

As far as the transmission of e-mails is concerned, BiKenG is right. But there's nothing in the e-mail standards to prevent the e-mail destination interpreting names however it likes -- that's not twisting or bending the rules at all. The parallel is with the name at the top of an address on paper post. The postal service is not allowed to assume that Frederika Example and Fred Example of 25 Main Street are the same person, but she herself is. Similarly, the e-mail delivery system, including Groups.io as a mailing list processor, must assume that frederika@... and fred.nospam@... are different, but they might well arrive in the same mailbox.

? - Mark


On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 05:01 PM, BiKenG wrote:
In an email address, all characters are equal. ...
?
At least, that is the standard and the SMTP servers that transmit messages all around the planet have to abide by these rules or it all falls apart.


Re: Awaiting Responce to Invite to Transfer from YahooGroups

 

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 11:24 PM, Shal Farley wrote:


All work and no play could be worse for the company's long-term health, if
burn-out sets in. I've no idea what kind of hours Mark works, but he's running
a 24/7 business and that's got to have an impact.
== ==
Shal (et Al),

As to Mark . . .

We at the users' end frequently do not evidence a complete grasp of how much work really goes on behind the scenes to make the end product be user friendly AND function properly. And as with any other artist or craftsman who stays too close to his or her work for too long, they can reach a point where they are unable to notice some of the small problems it may have.

So taking a break is a good thing for all involved ¨Cand that would not unreasonably include us users.

Hooray for Holidays!

Paul M.
==


Re: Awaiting Responce to Invite to Transfer from YahooGroups

 

Bob,

If may make the company go belly up but that's the boss's perogative.
All work and no play could be worse for the company's long-term health, if burn-out sets in. I've no idea what kind of hours Mark works, but he's running a 24/7 business and that's got to have an impact.

Shal


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Re: Awaiting Responce to Invite to Transfer from YahooGroups

 

If you're the sole proprietor you can do what you darn well please.
If may make the company go belly up but that's the boss's perogative.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends??
Founder & Executive Director,?


Re: action on support tickets

Joseph Hudson
 

Toby, keep you and Alan and the same reply. I have not heard, of Mark hiring any help. He had a friend, that was going to watch out for things while he in travel mode. India will small issues. However, I have not heard of him wanting to hire any help. Alan, the reason why you did not see marks message, is because you're not part of the beta group beta is the group that Mark runs and Post to. He is not a part of GMf.

On Jul 27, 2018, at 6:04 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io <alan1057@...> wrote:

Toby,

Just joined this forum and did not see Mark¡¯s message. Thanks for the update, now I understand.

Al

From: [email protected]<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Toby Kraft
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] action on support tickets

Mark's vacation notice stated "Replies to support emails will be delayed during this time. Also, group transfers will be delayed as well."
I interpret that to mean slower than normal response, as opposed to no response until he gets back. IIRC, he's looking into hiring some help.
Toby


Group not showing up in my groups list?

 

So, it turns out that Google and some others allow weird dotting in email addresses so that's how I got onto the new groups without a dot in my name. I logged in with the dotless name per Shal's suggestion, issued myself an invite with my dotted name, made myself an owner and can now see all my groups under my dotted name id. Whew.
?
I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you all.
?
--
----
Merle Finch? merle.finch@...? ? Cary NC USA?

Opinions expressed probably never reflect reality.


Locked Re: Uggh and I was Liking Groups.io

 

Shal, I appreciate your calm and reasonable comments, recognize that you aren't responsible for the policy, and are trying to be fair. But I must respectfully disagree with much of what you said.

First of all, obviously this policy IS based on personal beliefs. People's political identification depends on their own personal beliefs. People join "causes" because of their personal beliefs. Additionally, the statement on the pricing page refers to the "immoral policies" of one political group. That is a personal belief expressing a judgment of condemnation against the many people who don't share that belief. It also offers a privilege to people who share that belief while denying it to others who do not.

Referring to a group's beliefs as "immoral" may not be "hate speech" in a legal sense, but is at least an expression of intolerance and bigotry against that group. This is not a "stretch." The policy statement impugns the morality of an entire group of people while assuming the superiority of a differing group.?

Granted, this policy doesn't deny service to members of? a particular group. They can still ride the groups.io bus. They just have to pay for their tickets while members of the assumed "morally superior" group get to ride for free..?

The argument that only a tiny fraction of people might feel discriminated against by this policy is both patronizingly facile and grossly inaccurate. It's like saying that it's no big deal to discriminate against a certain ethnic group because they are only a small fraction of the population anyway. Also, the implication that only a tiny fraction of people would disagree with the policy is just factually wrong. The people who would disagree with the policy happen to constitute the current ruling majority political party of the United States, which is supported by approximately half of the people in this very large country. The precise numbers are debatable, but unquestionably millions of people would in principle find this policy offensive and objectionable if it became publicly known to them.

Facebook's loss of $118B reported yesterday would seem to counter the suggestion that politicization of social media services might be a profitable business practice. One could argue that was mostly due to privacy issues, but the subject? of political bias was also prominent in the public conversation about Facebook's policies and was a significant factor.

I don't think that I have a loss of perspective. I believe that I am putting the policy into a perspective which the groups.io owner may not recognize or respect.The loss then is not mine, but his.


[mod note: and so this topic ends as I somewhat thought it would. In an intractable debate on subjects that have nothing to do with helping users run their groups.]


Re: Transfer from Yahoo #transfer #yahoo

 

dd,

I am the Owner of the group.? I did as you describe below (Moderators tab) and it displays 4 moderators.? 3 of them are me of which one is the owner (me).
?
Look at the Membership menu and see if you can switch to your owner membership:


The screenshot shows me having three memberships, each using a distinct email address, and each with a different role (member, moderator and owner). By selecting the blue-crown membership I can access the group's features as owner.
?
If you don't have a blue crown among the memberships shown there, then your ownership must be held in a different Yahoo account ("Yahoo Profile" in the Manage Members list). Sign out, then sign in with that other ID.
?
If you can't sign in to that other Yahoo account, there is a means to transfer your owner membership from the other account to your active one, but that's a bit more involved. Check for details, or ask there.
Can I simply create the GroupsIO thing and invite people?
?
Yes, of course. But here are a few hints:
  • If your Y!group has more than 1000 members you'll need a tool to export the entire list. Again refer to Y!GMF for info.
  • If you Invite (or Direct Add) more that 20 addresses in a 24-hour period your action may be held pending review. The review is normally fairly swift but I don't know how that may be impacted while Mark is on vacation.
  • It may be worth it to you to pay the $10 fee to upgrade to Premium for one month (the "group transfer plan") so that you are able to use Direct Add rather than invite.
?
Shal
?

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Re: Group not showing up in my groups list?

BiKenG
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I think that's a battle you need to be having with Google. They're the ones misusing the email standards.

Or more likely there's a simple spelling error somewhere where the address is being stored.

In an email address, all characters are equal. Not all punctuation or other special characters are allowed, but those that are, represent a character just the same as any other normal character. So firstnamelastname is NOT the same as firstname.lastname, or firstname_lastname etc. The email servers have no way of 'understanding' what the text means, it is all just a string of ascii characters to them.

At least, that is the standard and the SMTP servers that transmit messages all around the planet have to abide by these rules or it all falls apart.

Then clever dicks come along and try to subvert the standards in their own software by interpreting certain characters to mean special things but it still holds that every character in an email address is important and a single incorrect character (whatever that might be) means it will be considered a different address.

What we also suffer from is bad 'error' checking. Many email clients will no longer accept a simple name/word (i.e. no @) as a valid address. Often not even accepting an address with an @, but without a dot after it. These are all perfectly valid in the original email standards and simply denote local host and local domain respectively, but the ignorance of the modern developers means this is not understood and so the very hand-holding that is supposed to help us, in fact prevents us from doing what the email standards were designed to provide. I'd rather not be subjected to any such supposed assistance, but it's inexcusable when they are assisting you, nay, FORCING you to actually do it wrong, or at least, NOT allowing you to do it right.

Getting a bit off topic there, sorry.


On 27 Jul 2018, at 02:38, Ellen <ellen@...> wrote:

And this is a battle I'm having with Apple. Some person just lately is using?mizelly@...?and purchases a lot from Apple. My email addy is?miz.elly@...and I've had it for years... and have never purchased anything at Apple.
When Apple tries to contact this person, the mail comes to me. Fortunately Apple is being quite understanding when I explained about that period. But it makes me wonder just where some mail may end up.


Re: Awaiting Responce to Invite to Transfer from YahooGroups

 

Thank you Shal,
Sorry for the lack of patience.
When I was in IT (the 2nd Millennium), you didn't go on vacation to keep your job. :)
I will await his/her return.
Kind Regards.


Re: Transfer from Yahoo #transfer #yahoo

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I am the Owner of the group.? I did as you describe below (Moderators tab) and it displays 4 moderators.? 3 of them are me of which one is the owner (me).
?
Can I simply create the GroupsIO thing and invite people?? I know the transfer thing is far better because I did it with another group about 6 months ago.? I know all the wonderful benefits the transfer thing does but Yahoo is frustrating me by not allowing me to invite or add new members.
?
Thank you for your help.
?
dd
?

From: Shal Farley
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 5:18 PM
To: GMF
Subject: Re: [GMF] Transfer from Yahoo
?
dd,
?
I am not able to invite [email protected] because Yahoo says:
?
Moderator can't invite or add new members
?
?That would mean that you don't have the moderator privilege to Invite and add members.?
?
What now?
?
?The bad news is that likely means that you also do not have the privilege to Add, remove, and change moderator privileges?, and lacking that you won't be able to complete your part of Step 3.
?
But just to be sure, go to the Moderators tab of the group's Manage Members page and click on any moderator's row (green crown), for example your own. If an Edit Membership box comes up you're in luck. You have the privilege to change privileges, and can give yourself the privilege to invite members.
?
Otherwise, unless you can solicit the help of an owner of the group, or a moderator with the needed privileges, you are pretty much out of luck as far as the easy Yahoo Group transfer is concerned. Your option is to use Invite or Direct Add (premium groups only) to bring the Manage Members list of the Y!Group into the Groups.io group you created for Step 0.
?
If the Y!Group has more than 1000 members there are ways around that, refer to on Yahoo Groups.
?
Shal
?

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Re: action on support tickets

Alan Robbins
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Toby,

?

Just joined this forum and did not see Mark¡¯s message. Thanks for the update, now I understand.

?

Al

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Toby Kraft
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] action on support tickets

?

Mark's vacation notice stated "Replies to support emails will be delayed during this time. Also, group transfers will be delayed as well."
I interpret that to mean slower than normal response, as opposed to no response until he gets back.? IIRC, he's looking into hiring some help.
Toby


Re: #Announcement Group and #announcement #reply-to-group

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Chris,

anyone know how to turn off the reply to group link in the footer.
I have an announcement group so members cannot post to it. So Reply to Group does not seem to make much sense.

In the Message Policies section of your group's Settings page select either Sender or Moderators in the Reply To control, and also check the Remove Other Relply Options box just below that.

Shal


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#Announcement Group and #announcement #reply-to-group

Chris Vaughan
 

Hi
anyone know how to turn off the reply to group link in the footer.
I have an announcement group so members cannot post to it. So Reply to Group does not seem to make much sense.
Hence I would like to turn it off

anyone know how to do this?


Locked Re: Uggh and I was Liking Groups.io

 

Daniel,

This is why I hate this topic. Politics causes some people to lose all perspective.

It's not illegal discrimination, but It is plainly discrimination
nonetheless: giving a preference to some group of people while denying
it to others based on some personal characteristic ...
Keep this clearly in mind: the only people being offered a free upgrade are those who run lists (groups) in service of a particular cause. Yes, that is technically discrimination. But no, it is not based on anyone's personal characteristics or beliefs.

I imagine that many members of my PTA and my classmate groups would agree with that cause, while another portion would hold the diametrically opposed view. None of them are being discriminated for or against. I would say likewise for the membership of GMF. It is only the tiny fraction of the membership, if any, which might run a group aligned with or against that particular issue who might have a reason to feel discriminated for or against.

For the rest of us, it is of no practical importance, though it may be of philosophical importance to some.

Regardless of the discrimination issue, it's an extremely stupid
business decision.
I don't know about "extremely stupid", but I do think it was an unwise one.

But I could be wrong. In recent years social media campaigns to punish companies for taking a political or moral stand have often as not backfired when supporters of that stand rally round the company. A social media campaign centered on Groups.io, even in opposition, might be a level of marketing Groups.io could never hope to achieve otherwise. That's an old observation by the way, which probably predates P. T. Barnum:


But no, I am NOT in any way shape or form insinuating that Mark is that cynical.

And finally, it is a violation of group.io's own Terms Of Service /
User Conduct section 6 (vi) that states groups.io must not be used in
any way which is "hateful racially, ethnically or otherwise
objectionable."
This is what I mean about the loss of perspective. To get there you had to stretch "otherwise objectionable" way beyond the context of that sentence (hate speech).
Shal



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Locked Re: Uggh and I was Liking Groups.io

 

It's not illegal discrimination, but It is plainly discrimination nonetheless: giving a preference to some group of people while denying it to others based on some personal characteristic which you happen to share with the group you give preference to.

Regardless of the discrimination issue, it's an extremely stupid business decision. Consider Ford Motor Company saying that they are going to give free cars to anyone who is a registered Democrat. Obviously then Ford is not going to make any money selling cars to Democrats since they are giving them to them for free instead. And how many Republicans are going to buy a Ford once they hear about this?

?And finally, it is a violation of group.io's own Terms Of Service / User Conduct section 6 (vi) that states groups.io must not be used in any way which is? "hateful racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable."
/static/tos

Or is that just a double standard which applies only to the groups.io users but not to the owner?


Re: Awaiting Responce to Invite to Transfer from YahooGroups

 

Art,

Any reason for a delay??
The transfer agent is on vacation:


Shal


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Locked Re: Uggh and I was Liking Groups.io

 

Daniel,

I also suspect that this blatant bias for and against certain users
based on their political beliefs is going to soon become a viral hot
topic on social media.
Keep in mind that Groups.io is not turning anyone away. All that has happened is that groups of a certain nature are offered a free upgrade to Premium.

Some may consider it a distinction without a difference, and I'm sure many will, but I don't think offering a discount to a certain class of groups constitutes discrimination against all the others. I certainly don't feel that GMF or my PTA group or my classmate groups, all being non-political, are being discriminated against.

People who have large audiences in social media may be advising others
to avoid, move away from, or otherwise boycott groups.io because of
this discriminatory policy.
People have to make their own decisions, obviously. They should consider whether:

a) the apparent fact that Mark Fletcher holds a political view that they disagree with; or
b) the fact that some groups were offered an upgrade that was not offered to them;

is sufficient cause for them to move to another service, one which likely provides inferior features and support for them and their group members.

Shal


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