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Received from Shal Farley at 7/18/2018 12:54 AM UTC:
?

Jim,

They told me Groups.io needed to call them and request removal of the block/delay and I sent the number to do that to Mark via the "Support" email address.

Good, I hope that helps.

Mark reports that RoadRunner/Spectrum should no longer be blocking/delaying mail from Groups.io. He didn't mention calling them, but I assume so.

It is a (dubious in my opinion) anti-spam technique called greylisting. The theory is that spambots won't retry.

Yes. Great theory, but very stupidly applied when blocking a mailing list where subscribers signed up willingly for the email they receive. If it's solicited it shouldn't be blocked or delayed. (Ex part time abuse desk staffer here).

Jim H

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Beth Weld wrote:

I don't see a way for me to change that so I assume that I have to ask each member to somehow make their display name (?) more than just the first name.

You can change it in the Member's List. Go to Admin->Members and click on any user's name. The Display Name is an editable field here.?

Be advised that the subscriber can change it back to anything they want (via Subscription->Group Profile->Edit Group Profile). You can set a group policy on this but it such a policy not enforceable via the software. Thankfully, most will be too lazy or disinterested to bother.

As Toby noted, there has been a lot of discussion on this, here and elsewhere, and a consensus is a long way off. For my own current purposes, I would like to be able to set these names and lock them, but I also understand that if I was running a group for Alcoholics Anonymous or something like that, the opposite would no doubt be true.?

The bottom line is that the only real system identifier in groups.io is the email address. This is advantageous in some respects, inconvenient in others -- and to me, and this is one example of the latter.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
--
The system Help is your friend.??/static/help

I hear you, but lacking a link to what you believe you read elsewhere, I can only go on what the notice from Groups.io said and it said...

"You must take action to restore your account, or we will unsubscribe you from all of the groups you are a member of."

I'll contact Mark via the support address and ask him to change the wording of the bouncing notice to reflect that Group OWNERS are exempt from unsubscription... if that's indeed the case.

And I'll get back to the group on his response.

Jim H



Received from Shal Farley at 7/18/2018 05:06 PM UTC:

On 18/07/18 03:22 PM, MILLARD MUNGER wrote:

Is there some automatic culling of emails going on?

At least three things are happening:
* People that tried, and failed to unsubscribe from Yahoo, discover
their "toss into spam" filter no longer works, so they look at the
message, see an unsubscribe address, and use it;
* People that don't recognize the email address, and promptly toss the
message, unread, into spam;
* People that want to read messages, getting bounced, because a
"significant percentage" of users of their email vendor have decreed the
email address of the sender to be spam, triggering specific protocol
settings;

Within the first week, the list will receive messages from individuals,
wanting to know why you involuntarily subscribed them to the list.
Usually, but not always, these are individuals who tossed list-mail
straight into the trash, starting more than five years ago. They have
forgotten that they were ever subscribed to the list.
Regardless of how well you think you've prepared the list for the
migration, individuals in this group will have little idea of what is
going on. Telling them they should have read list mail, or even worse,
claiming that it was clearly discussed on some non-YahooGroups site,
will result in pithy flames directed at the list-moderator, and list-owner.

###

My suggestion is that the first message sent to the group state:
* This is the new home of "name and email address of previous home";
* Everybody in the subscriber list of the previous home was added here;
* For those that think that they are new here, you probably repeatedly
tried, and failed to unsubscribe from the list at the previous home.
Thus, you wrote a filter to throw everything into trash, and have
forgotten about this list;
* Directions on how to unsubscribe;
* Directions on how to get all list mail from Groups.IO to go to the
same email address;

The second message sent to the group should state:
* What the list is about;
* The history of the list;
* The future plans of the list;

The third message sent to the group should state:
* The rules of the list;
* An explanation of why those rules are in place;

The fourth message sent to the group should declare that it is now open
for user participation.

I cannot believe so many would be leaving on the first day.

If membership dropped by more than a third, I'd be concerned. Less than
that, and you're probably looking at the cumulative effects of longterm
issues in unsubscribing from YahooGroups.

On second thoughts, I'd be concerned if the list was the official
Internet communication channel for an organization, and these were
current members. I'd privately contact the unsubscribed individuals,
asking for an explanation, and file a report with the Board of
Directors, stating that x% / # members had unsubscribed from the list.

jonathon

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Karen Bruhin wrote:

I sent to invitation back around the July 4 Holiday and again yesterday. I understand it can take 2-3 days, but this seems to be taking a bit longer than that. I'd just like to get a status update if possible.

When logged in using the email address that set up the transfer, go to the Yahoo transfer status page at /yahootransfer?

At bottom right, click in the "In Process" box. The name of the group you are transferring should appear in the list.

If it doesn't appear, then you never started the transfer on groups.io. Click on the green Start New Transfer button and try again.

If it does appear, click on the name, and it should open a new page. At the top of the resulting page is a grey box. Based on what you told us, it should say something to the effect that "Your invitation has been received and will be accepted soon. There is no need to send another invite."

If it says that, you're fine...all you can do is continue to wait. If it doesn't say that, then your invitation did not go through, and you need to send it again.

See also?/g/GroupManagersForum/message/8697?and
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Transfer-from-Yahoo-Groups?

Regards,
Bruce?
--
The system Help is your friend.??/static/help

On 7/18/2018 2:17 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Claire Tompkins wrote:

If you have a suitable suggestion, I’d love to hear it. ?Yahoo and
Google Groups both seem to be subpar.

The first thing I'd try is converting some of the TIFs to one of the
other formats at low compression. It's amazing how much storage can be
saved that way and still have a sharp, legible image.

Some folks set up a public folder on a Google Drive, upload all the big
files there, and insert links in their emails instead. It's a little
kludgy but if you decide to use Google Groups instead of GIO you're
gonna find yourself doing much the same thing.

Another option is to pay $110/year for a Premium group with 10 GB storage.

Or any combination thereof.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Videos will eat up even 10GB in no time. It might be better to host
them on a Private channel at YouTube (i.e one where each video can be
accessed only if you have the specific link) and just post the links to
her list.



--
Bill

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 01:25 PM, Patti wrote:

I had a welcome message that in addition to the basic text also sent the new member three attachments containing additional information.

A feature of this nature has been requested in the beta group a few times, in various forms, but never got much traction.?

See??

and also??

You might want to go to this "suggestion box" group and give these ideas a bump.

Meanwhile, you have two options:

--?Store the "attachments" off-site in some publicly-accessible location and insert links to them in your Welcome notice, or
-- Concatenate all the relevant documents into a single, much longer Welcome notice.?

Hope this helps,
Bruce
--
The system Help is your friend.??/static/help

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 07:18 PM, MILLARD MUNGER wrote:

I will be sending a followup on yahoo remind g old members to take a new look at gio.
Hope they will come back.

All well and good, but did you take up my earlier suggestion to look at the Notifications that you receive; these notifications will tell you whether the members left of their own accord of whether they were "removed" automatically.

Chris

On 18/07/18 12:59 PM, Chris wrote:

the committee have decided that in order to comply with GDRP every member must re-subscribe every 2 years.

Which of the 18 or so official versions of the GDPR, and/or official
statute of the 28 member states and roughly dozen other countries that
tend to follow EU directives, are they looking at, to come to that
conclusion?

I know that the various official versions of the GDPR, do conflict with
each other, and that some countries added things to it, and others
removed things to it, But of the half dozen translations of official
statutes, and half dozen official versions of the GDPR I've read, I
haven't seen anything that has that as a suggestion, much less a
requirement.

More pointedly, even the privacy lawyers in Europe are suggesting that
the wave of "please re-suscribe" requests that hit list-subscribers when
punishment for violating the GDPR went into effect, were unnecessary, if
the list had been adhering to the law that went into effect in 2002.

###

I'm assuming they are referring to the GDPR, as laid out by the European
Union. If they mean the GDPR, as proposed in California (^2), BRICS
(^1), or somewhere else, then that needs to be specified.

If they are looking of the privacy statutes in the Philippines, then;
* that law applies only within the Philippines;
* that law appears to be enforced only against those on the hit list of
the politicians that mismanage that country;

My recollection is that the two year requirement is for data retention,
with the count starting at the demise of the list. IOW, you have to keep
subscription information of each subscriber, from the time the
individual subscribes, until two years after the list shut down.
However, I might be confusing Philippine law, with that of another country.

My idea of a feature request is to have an extra field with a date that the acceptance with GDRP was declared for each member.

If the sole reason for implementing this feature, is to conform with
that an alleged requirement of the GDPR, then the requester needs to
cite both the statute law and the case law, that supports the alleged
requirement. Given the plethora of requests Mark has been given, I don't
see him implementing this, unless Legal-Man presents a very solid legal
case for so doing.

Using Estonian law as the example, the requirement is that the list
owner show the date that the individual subscribed, and be able to
demonstrate that the subscription was voluntary in nature. I'm not going
to go into what constitute "voluntary" and "involuntary" under Estonian
Law, except to say that as a general rule of thumb, somebody sending an
email to an email list, to subscribe to the list, is "voluntary". The
major exception is when subscribing is required, to participate in a
sweepstakes, or similar giveaway.

Groups.IO keeps the date that one subscribed to a list, and how they
subscribed (email, web, moderator/owner added, other). This record
conforms with current Estonian law.

Finally a feature to remove all members with out of date acceptances from the list.

Back around 1992, it was fairly common for list-owners to unsubscribe
everybody on all of the lists they owned, or managed, at least once a
year. Then Eternal Fall happened, and list subscribers appeared to have
lost the ability to know how to re-subscribe. If that list committee
really thinks that the GDPR mandates re-confirming list subscriptions
every two years, then the simple solution is for them to, on the first
Monday of even years, unsubscribe everybody on the list, regardless of
when they subscribed to the list, and wait for people to re-subscribe.
Call it _The Great Biannual Re-subscription Day_.

Apologies if this has already been raised or indeed it's the incorrect place.

This is a good place to float ideas.

Responses might not be what you expect, but will, as a general rule,
explain why a proposal is a good idea, or a bad idea, or needs more
information, to ascertain the utility of the proposal.

###

^1: Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. All five have floated a
proposal similar to the GDPR in the last six months. Just how they
reconcile it with their internal security "requirements", makes for some
interesting situations.

^2: The California statute, which is a watered down version of the GDPR,
goes into effect 1 January 2020. Off the cuff, I'd be very surprised if
it mandated all list subscriptions be verified every two years. I don't
remember reading anything that carved out a special exemption for
politicians. I'm fairly confident that no political campaign manager
wants to devote one week each year, to confirm that their donors still
want to donate to CREEP,(^3) or whatever the politician chooses to call
his/her re-election fund.

^3: CREEP: _Committee to RE-Elect the President_ was the name of Nixon's
campaign, in 1972.

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.


jonathon

Several times I have received blank digests, and just lost a member because of it,
What's going on?

Nina

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Claire Tompkins wrote:

If you have a suitable suggestion, I’d love to hear it. ?Yahoo and Google Groups both seem to be subpar.?

The first thing I'd try is converting some of the TIFs to one of the other formats at low compression. It's amazing how much storage can be saved that way and still have a sharp, legible image.

Some folks set up a public folder on a Google Drive, upload all the big files there, and insert links in their emails instead. It's a little kludgy but if you decide to use Google Groups instead of GIO you're gonna find yourself doing much the same thing.

Another option is to pay $110/year for a Premium group with 10 GB storage.

Or any combination thereof.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
--
The system Help is your friend.??/static/help

Sad phenom, but necessary I guess.

Max Munger

I will be sending a followup on yahoo remind g old members to take a new look at gio.
Hope they will come back.

Max Munger

---

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 Sarah k Alawami <[email protected]> wrote:

Jim,
Well, yes and no.?
I'm pretty sure that if your group only has one owner, your account would not be removed as owner.? Perhaps someone can confirm that.
Even if you were unsubscribed from the groups, you could still login to groups.io on the web and resubscribe.? All of us owners that have active groups, have made a 2nd person / account / email as a 2nd owner to provide access to and control of the group if anything should happen to the primary owner person or email.? This situation is a reminder that the 2nd email should hosted by a different mail provider.
Also, an email to [email protected]?would quickly resolve the problem as Mark can fix anything.

Thanks,
Toby

PS
Mark is on vacation:

--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Each account / member on groups.io can subscribe to one or more groups.? For each group that the member subscribes to, they have a group profile.? One of the fields in the group profile is the display name to use for that group.??
Subscribers can set their display name on their group subscription page:


When a group is transferred, the subscriber's display name, near as I can tell, is left empty.? When they post a message, if their email address has a name attached, then the display name is updated using that name.? Your post contained this "From: Beth Weld <bethweld77@...>" so if you didn't have a display name set, "Beth Weld" would be put there.? ?See?

As an owner, you also have access to and can change a subscriber's display name for your group from Admin -> Members.

There has been much discussion about controlling, locking, forcing display names in this and the Beta forum.
Thanks
Toby

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Help: /static/help
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