On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 06:44 pm, J_Catlady wrote:

Good god, things are problematic enough...

I agree. Trying to propose a new system feature that doesn't require lots of system programming (like an online questionnaire would).

The way I see it, the ongoing problem with email subscribers and lack of moderator notification is a bug, not a feature.?

Bruce

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 09:23 pm, Tom H wrote:

Are others concerned? Has there been any discussion (I found some about exporting specific parts but nothing holistic)?

The ability to bulk-download files and photos is a frequently requested feature. There is an ongoing discussion in beta about providing ftp access that you might want to chime in on. Of course this approach would not preserve file ownership but at least you could get everything.??

Bruce

--

Thank you Toki,

So does this mean we're going to have to wait for court decisions, i.e litigation? Or is it that courts are currently deciding what GDPR requirements mean and we'll have answers in or around the time GDPR comes into effect? Everyone on my Yahoo group lives in the UK and we're a members' group (choir) and charity, not a private individual. I am not concerned about my private contact lists however I absolutely don't use the list for any marketing neither do I pass addresses on to others without permission.

We do have to comply as a group and therefore need to have answers.

Many thanks

Carole

?On 22/03/2018, 23:52, "toki" <[email protected] on behalf of toki.kantoor@...> wrote:

On 03/22/2018 09:44 PM, Carole wrote:
> For GDPR we are required to ensure compliance with any 3rd parties who store personal data on our behalf

Once GDPR goes into effect, there are going to be administrative
changes. What those changes are, depends upon what the courts decide.

Mailing lists owned by a private individual are an edge case. The
current assumption is that adherence to the entirety of the GDPR is
required. (Personal Rolodex cards fell into the scope of a similar,
albeit weaker measure, that passed about twenty years ago. This is why
those of us whose contact list looks like an expanded edition of _The
Mackay 66_ are also going to have to comply with GDPR, if anybody living
in Europe, or from Europe is in the list.)

>The main concern is whether data is stored on servers inside or outside the EU.

Going by traceroute, it looks like the servers are in the United States.
However, that is a question best answered by Mark.

> So my question is does Groups.io have servers inside the EU for those of us in Europe?

> A. Storing and using data via third parties
> e.g. sharing documents (Google Drive),

Unless Google has clearly stated that everything on Google Drive will
adhere to GDPR, regardless of physical location, the only storage that
will be compliant, is accounts that either originated in Europe, or for
individuals currently resident in Europe. (And yes, Google knows your
home address, even if you never told them.)

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

jonathon

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 06:44 pm, J_Catlady wrote:

Good god, things are problematic enough with that message and the whole pending subscription process. I'm shielding my eyes ....

Quite so. I can't see why a properly written Pending Subscription message to which the applicant has to reply (no reply then no membership!) wouldn't be sufficient.

There is also another live thread about GDPR on this forum; while it is mainly of relevance to data protectionin Europe if a Europe - based Group were to collect all sorts of information about applicants in a complex authorisation process then that Group itself would have to be GDPR compliant. That said I can see that depending on a Group's raison d'etre there might be a need for something a little more than "I am interested in joining because..." but I can see no merit in introducing layers of complexity without an extremely good reason.

Chris

Thanks Shal. His Email Delivery History doesn't show any bounces / rejects. He already checked his spam/junk/trash/whatever but they are not there either.

Cheers

Ary

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Shal Farley
Verzonden: vrijdag 23 maart 2018 07:30
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [GMF] weird thing

Ary,

> I checked that, Bruce but the mail isn’t bouncing. He should receive > them. The strange thing is that he does receive mails from the group, > just not his own mails.

I think this is his email service hiding his own messages from him. Not for the same reason as Gmail (which is what the "I always want copies of my own posts." J mentioned is designed for).

That is:

> "[This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who > they appear to be. Learn about spoofing at > ]"

This issue has been discussed before in relation to Outlook.com:
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/4022
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6265

And it appears Mark is working on it (second item):


> We do not send mails like these.

Yes you do. Technically, when Groups.io sends group postings to the members, those messages are spoofed. That is, the From: field in the message header gives the address of the member who posted the message.
But the message is being sent by Groups.io, not that member directly.
That makes it a "spoof".

Usually that fact is harmless (most email services understand about email lists), but this particular member's email service may be noticing that the message claims to come From this member him/herself - yet it knows that the server that gave it to them was Groups.io's and not the member's own account.

So I'd expect the member to find his/her messages sequestered in his/her Spam (or Junk) folder. Or maybe delivered to his/her Trash can, depending on settings. Or, it is possible that the member's service actually rejected his/her own messages - in which case there ought to be evidence of this fact in the member's Email Delivery History page.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Ary,

I checked that, Bruce but the mail isn’t bouncing. He should receive
them. The strange thing is that he does receive mails from the group,
just not his own mails.

I think this is his email service hiding his own messages from him. Not for the same reason as Gmail (which is what the "I always want copies of my own posts." J mentioned is designed for).

That is:

"[This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who
they appear to be. Learn about spoofing at
]"

This issue has been discussed before in relation to Outlook.com:
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/4022
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6265

And it appears Mark is working on it (second item):

We do not send mails like these.

Yes you do. Technically, when Groups.io sends group postings to the members, those messages are spoofed. That is, the From: field in the message header gives the address of the member who posted the message. But the message is being sent by Groups.io, not that member directly. That makes it a "spoof".

Usually that fact is harmless (most email services understand about email lists), but this particular member's email service may be noticing that the message claims to come From this member him/herself - yet it knows that the server that gave it to them was Groups.io's and not the member's own account.

So I'd expect the member to find his/her messages sequestered in his/her Spam (or Junk) folder. Or maybe delivered to his/her Trash can, depending on settings. Or, it is possible that the member's service actually rejected his/her own messages - in which case there ought to be evidence of this fact in the member's Email Delivery History page.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

That's the premium $10 per month version that allows you to create RSVP's and gives you 10 Gigs of data storage.
/static/pricing

--
Norm

Faced with the demise of Wikispaces, at least it has a pretty comprehensive and long established Backup/Export feature with which one can transfer to some sites without great loss. All page content, stored files, page discussions and content can be downloaded in a compressed file. The pages can be delivered in HTML, PDF and various wiki text syntaxes and on-page discussions and comments in XML, related to the pages, even to selected text within. Groups.io looks to me to be a potential destination for my site and would be more attractive if it had a bulk import from a Wikispaces backup/export set. That said, I also want the target site to have an export capability similar to that of Wikispaces - I don't want to be locked in with no way out.

From what I can see, Groups.io is very definitely a multiroom building of which only a couple of rooms have fire escapes - the message archive and the members list. Everything else is downloadable one file at a time at best or is inaccessible (e.g. wikiimages). The message archive is exported in MBOX format for which I see there are converters available to, e.g., HTML; I've not explored how faithfully a HTML message is conveyed through such a process.

1. Are others concerned? Has there been any discussion (I found some about exporting specific parts but nothing holistic)?
2. Has anyone evaluated the archive export for completeness, fidelity, mobility?
3. Has there been any push on Beta for full backup/export?

Thanks,

Tom

1. ?

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 07:17 pm, Linda Perry wrote:

If you remove a post before it goes out in the daily digest, will it still go out in the daily digest like it did in yahoo groups?

No

If you write to a member privately, does it save your message in the group anywhere or do you need to BCC yourself???

No, not yet (it is planned for the future). You need to BCC yourself.

If a member is on moderation and I reject their post with a reply will that information be available in the group for me to look back on?

Your rejection message will be in the log, but not the message itself. You need to have saved it in your email notification if you want to see it.

What is a sidebar and how do you create one?

The sidebar is the panel of options down the left side of the home page. You can't create one besides the one that's there.

Can you remove html codes for members but have them available for owners?

Not sure what you mean by "remove" and "available." If you mean set your group to strip HTML from posts, but not from moderators' posts, the answer is no.
?
--
J

If you remove a post before it goes out in the daily digest, will it still go out in the daily digest like it did in yahoo groups?

If you write to a member privately, does it save your message in the group anywhere or do you need to BCC yourself??

If a member is on moderation and I reject their post with a reply will that information be available in the group for me to look back on?

What is a sidebar and how do you create one?

Can you remove html codes for members but have them available for owners?

Linda Perry

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 06:01 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:

...perhaps allow an attachment to the Pending Subscription message, which could be used to send a PDF fill-in form

Good god, things are problematic enough with that message and the whole pending subscription process. I'm shielding my eyes ....
--
J

Expanding on Bob's idea...perhaps allow an attachment to the Pending Subscription message, which could be used to send a PDF fill-in form that you've previously uploaded to the group? The new subscriber would then fill that out and send it back.

Generally speaking you wouldn't want to allow public access to the files area of a restricted group, but if you can send one file as an attachment it would obviate that problem.

Just a thought,
Bruce

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Thanks,? A couple of my lists were having trouble posting Private messages, was hoping for an easy explanation.

--
ken clark

www.shastasprings.com

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I found this message in the beta | main list.? is this still current?? I have a couple of list owners giving conflicting instructions on taking messages private or off-line.

--
ken clark

"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success."? Steinbeck - Cannery Row

On 03/22/2018 09:44 PM, Carole wrote:

For GDPR we are required to ensure compliance with any 3rd parties who store personal data on our behalf

Once GDPR goes into effect, there are going to be administrative
changes. What those changes are, depends upon what the courts decide.

Mailing lists owned by a private individual are an edge case. The
current assumption is that adherence to the entirety of the GDPR is
required. (Personal Rolodex cards fell into the scope of a similar,
albeit weaker measure, that passed about twenty years ago. This is why
those of us whose contact list looks like an expanded edition of _The
Mackay 66_ are also going to have to comply with GDPR, if anybody living
in Europe, or from Europe is in the list.)

The main concern is whether data is stored on servers inside or outside the EU.

Going by traceroute, it looks like the servers are in the United States.
However, that is a question best answered by Mark.

So my question is does Groups.io have servers inside the EU for those of us in Europe?

A. Storing and using data via third parties
e.g. sharing documents (Google Drive),

Unless Google has clearly stated that everything on Google Drive will
adhere to GDPR, regardless of physical location, the only storage that
will be compliant, is accounts that either originated in Europe, or for
individuals currently resident in Europe. (And yes, Google knows your
home address, even if you never told them.)

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

jonathon

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