Yup. I'm sure someone initially thought it an immensely clever play on the 'C' programming language - but it introduced a lot of confusion owing to the world not being entirely ready for Unicode, and particularly not in programming languages that want to be portable.

Actually it is quite clever, and less a play on the 'C' programming than the 'C++' language. You can compose two plus characters into a hash symbol with just a little imagination, and a hash symbol looks pretty much like a sharp symbol, but C-sharp sounds much more interesting than C-hash. This is supported by the fact that Microsoft introduced a J++ language in the 90's, which was their implementation of Java with some interesting extensions, and that also led to a J# (J-sharp) around the same time as C#.

I don't recall it causing much confusion, but that discussion might take us too far off topic!

Richard

Jim,

Yes, OK. I can't see the sharp sign symbol in your message, just the
dreaded square box, but following your link shows it.

Hmm... The square box implies to me that your email interface recognized that it was a Unicode character, but didn't have that character available in the font used for displaying the message. Possibly you could see it if you can switch display fonts?

If your interface couldn't handle Unicode at all you would, I think, have been shown a sequence of three upper-rank characters. I can say that because I relatively recently switched from Eudora Classic, which did not support Unicode.

The use of C# (pronounced "see sharp") to name the programming
language just adds to that confusion.

Yup. I'm sure someone initially thought it an immensely clever play on the 'C' programming language - but it introduced a lot of confusion owing to the world not being entirely ready for Unicode, and particularly not in programming languages that want to be portable.

I must remember to use the appropriate numeric code if I ever want to
use a sharp sign in HTML!

In the Miscellaneous Symbols block, ♯ at your service.

Shal


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The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


[mod note: can we all take that as a rhetorical question that does not require response, rejoinder, retort other form of reply?]

David . . .


On Sun, 4 Mar 2018 09:05:39 -0500 (EST), "David P. Dillard"
<jwne@...> wrote:

There is no discussion group network that has a guaranteed safety program
for continued existence as far as I know.

While I expect few, if any here to do this, you could get your own web
hosting, install a free Listserv or Majordomo software package, and
run your own.

It won't have the easy access to pictures, files, etc., but you can
add that, too, if you wish if you design your own web site or have
someone add those features for you, as you can do that with a web
hosting service.

An alternative is to run a BBS type group using phpBB (free) software.
I set one of these up for an aquatic plants/aquarium group, and we had
a web designer who donated her time to do that web site part of it for
other features. It worked well, but eventually the group fell apart
and I believe the site was let go.

But if you have paid web hosting and you care enough to do it, have
the ability or available talent to do it, you can have complete
control over a email-only group (with an optional web site component).
You make backups of everything periodically and don't trust backups
completely to the web hosting company. That way, you avoid what
happened to those Listserv groups when 2 years of posts were deleted.

I doubt most here want to put that much effort into such a thing, but
it is an option. Otherwise, we resort to places like YG! and
groups.io. And for many here who moved or are thinking of moving from
YG! to IO, they want a similar experience as that seen on YG!, and IO
offers that to your members.

Donald


The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who
speak it. --Selwyn Duke

ken,

On the old list, new members were moderated until they had one post
approved, supposedly.

As Duane said, there never was a setting in Yahoo Groups to automatically unmoderate after a given number of posts - that had to be done by the group moderators.

Instead YG had changed hundreds of list members to Override-moderated

They weren't changed, that's how their membership began. In a Yahoo Group the "Moderated for new members" means literally that new members are put on the moderated override, but the group is unmoderated for those members set to "Default group policy".

and as such they were profiled on groups.io None were transferred as
new members moderated until approval.
...
I'm helping out and was not a list member prior to the transfer, but
although the list owners said new members were automatically moderated
until the first approved post, that information did not show on the YG
list membership or the new membership on groups.io

Correct. Because there is no equivalent Posting Privilege setting for a Y!Group member.

At this point I can just leave them permanently moderated or I can
change them to default group.

I would take the lazy way out. Leave them as is for now, but if and when one of them posts change that one at that time. That would be effectively what the Y!Group moderators would have to have been doing. So it would be a familiar procedure for them.

But I would go ahead and set the Groups.io group with New user moderation going forward. You can explain to the former Y!Group mods that the members who join at Groups.io will be handled automatically, but they will still need to manually handle the members who transferred in from the Yahoo Group.

Shal


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I have to thank Mark for transferring my group from YahooGroups to Groups.io so well. In 48 hours from sending the request to move, all the members and messages had moved over. This was elation tinged with some concern as the main thrust of the group is in its files and photos. My mods team immediately rallied round and suggested these could be transferred manually if they all took a chunk of them to work on. I sat tight and hoped Mark would be able to have a second go. Lo and behold this? morning all the files and photos had made it ...

I cannot thank Mark enough for what he has achieved for my group which has been going for almost 16 years on YahooGroups and has built up a considerable resource of material. We almost broke out the champagne but opted for a bottle of red instead!

Members are delighted with the change and many have posted for the first time in a long time to say how easy they are finding their way around and how smoothly the transfer has gone.

From a mightily relieved (and apologies for the long message)
Margaret

Thanks for the suggestions Lena. I really would like to try the subgroups option and see how much members like it. If I should ever have to go back to Yahoo, it would be nice to be able to transfer messages from IO to Yahoo, just like they are being transferred from Yahoo to IO.

On thinking some more about the continuity issue another member of this group brought up and that I commented on, I now suspect that probably all the free groups, like freelists, that have no advertisements are run by one or two or three individuals.
Stan

There is no discussion group network that has a guaranteed safety program for continued existence as far as I know. The Listserv at Temple for 2009 and 2010 for all lists on that server were permanently lost when an employee reading an outdated manual unilaterly deleted two years of posts on all lists to make room for new content and this was not needed. I do not think one will find permanent archives a real promise anywhere. I would like to be wrong about this, but doubt that I am. Even Google that has claimed to be the world's library has destroyed its Blog database, its Uncle Sam government database, destroyed Google News Archive that is a ghost of its former self and destroyed Google News at well which is current days news only at this point.







Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@...

I worked for a multinational company before I retired. Our standard date format was DDMMMYYYY (i.e.: 04MAR2018). We got used to it, but even that had its problems.

I'm sure Mark is cognizant of everyone's biases and -- if it's implemented at all -- will be done in a manner that minimizes the rockage of anybody's world.

"If you have always done it that way, it is probably wrong."? -- Charles Kettering

Bruce

Thanks to everyone who replied. I am glad that an email is sent to the person to rejoin the group. I have seen several times when a member would report a message as spam and be removed then the next message I got was they rejoined.

Thanks

Joe

Shal,

Jim,

> Maybe in North America, but until the internet became widespread I
> knew it only as a sharp sign in music notation.

Actually, the sharp sign is a different character, versus #.

The octothorp has a long and storied history:


Shal

Yes, OK. I can't see the sharp sign symbol in your message, just the dreaded
square box, but following your link shows it. I hadn't noticed that slight
difference (just rotated a few degrees). In that case, prior to internet use, I
hadn't come across it at all. The use of C# (pronounced "see sharp") to name
the programming language just adds to that confusion.

I must remember to use the appropriate numeric code if I ever want to use a
sharp sign in HTML!

Jim

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Forget Google! I search with which doesn't spy on you

Again, those usages are unknown this side of the Atlantic. Pound weight is
always lb, pound currency is ? (and that is what is meant by the words "pound
sign") and on a phone the # sign is called hash (It didn't exist on old phones
with a rotating dial).

Jim

On 3 Mar 2018 at 15:01, Don wrote:

Then there is always the pound sign used at least in the U.S. to indicate weight
like 10# (lb.), and we can't forget about the # key on a phone, which is always
referred to as the pound key.

Don

[excess quote trimmed by moderator]

--
- My thoughts on freedom (needs updating)
- political snippets, especially economic policy
- misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with which doesn't spy on you

After our transfer I had one member (out of 150) with a Hotmail account who was also unable to keep this spam-bounce thing from happening. He would receive the first message in a thread but subsequent ones would land in his spam folder. Or so I was told...

We had six other Hotmail subscribers and none of them experienced any problems. I had one of them send him a note telling him how to whitelist the group email address. I also offered several other options.?He ignored us both, and ended up getting a different email address entirely and resubscribing using that. A rather extreme alternative but he seemed pleased with the outcome and that's all that matters.

If you aren't willing to "show the love" enough to actually sit behind him and witness the problem yourself, I suggest you first have him switch to plain-text digest mode. Since these contain no hyperlinks, it seems unlikely that they would bounce. If you can get that to work, switch to full digest and maybe you can probe enough to figure out exactly what his ISP is choking on. That's what I was hoping to do with my guy but he wasn't interested in being a guinea pig.?

Bruce

开云体育

Knowing that the search uses whole words is helpful. Searching on segments would be useful when, as I was, you try to find members who have more than one email address. I hoped I might get a match on a first name that appeared in more than one address and deduce that it was actually the same user.

For a service desk application that I developed, I wrote a whole set of search modules for searching the log. Second level support used it quite a bit and my dev team used it for looking for optimizations but the first level support manager banned it among her analysts-- she claimed, rightly I suppose, that first level should not go into that much detail.

This is a very long subject regarding the major ISPs requiring certain information on each and every message they receive for their subscribers.??
They also are continually modifying those requirements
As a result, very often, one of their subscribers is sent a message by groups.io because they are a member of a group here as you and I are.
And the ISP receiving the message arbitrarily decides does not adhere to their rules because
? ?Some other ISP Blacklisted groups.io
? ?The Content may seem to contain objectionable words or phrases, etc.
? ?The message may seem (to them) not to come from a valid source.
? ?The message headers do not conform to their (always changing) rules
In the above cases, the receiving ISP may arbitrarily mark the message as spam and inform groups.io of that fact.
There are other, too numerous to mention and ever changing, reasons for them doing this.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?OR
The receiving party doesn't realize that their group is at a new provider, groups.io, and for some reason, marks the message as spam.

? ? In all (and more) of the above cases, groups.io is informed and has two choices. --
Bob Bellizzi

The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation

Discussions and explanations can be found at /g/GroupManagersForum/topic/11901516 and /g/GroupManagersForum/topic/8132752

Duane
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I could not notice when a member of my groups report a message for spam, they are automatically removed from the group.

Why is that?

Thanks

Joe