I'll weigh-in on this ... being able to set a "default" sort for photos would be great solution ... This would make everyone happy as they could set the default sort to whatever makes sense them. It's very annoying to have to resort photos each visit, especially if you have recently posted pictures and someone in the group can't find them because the default sort is "title".
Dennis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 09:33 AM, Victoria wrote:

1.????? Activity Search: Putting into the search field the mail address of a member and activating the mail activity search function, I get all the mails of that member, but the date is the one of group.io start.

I believe that's an artifact of a group transfer.? Any messages dated before the creation of the group have the transfer or group creation date shown as the message date.? I haven't transferred a group, but maybe someone that has can verify this.

Duane
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Received from Shal Farley at 10/28/2018 08:42 PM UTC:

Jim,

My Gio cookie expired within the past day or two... with NO NOTICE to me that I could request a login link!!!!

This may be the fundamental reason you and I are at odds on this topic.

My login expired sometime last night. Then when I clicked on the Pending button I had open in a browser I was taken direct to the Login screen.

That wasn't my experience.

But a bit of research shows that with cookies deleted, visiting a Gio group that requires subscribership to read DOES take you to a login screen, while visiting a group that doesn't require subscribership to read does NOT take you to a login screen. The group I visited didn't require subscribership to read, thus a group Owner (me) who visited to perform some Admin functions - found himself not logged in and looking at substantially the same view as if he were logged in... minus the Admin-related menu items.

Given the cause, I don't see a 100% cure for this problem. Extending the expiration period for cookies and refreshing them on each visit would be an improvement - perhaps a substantial one - over the current situation, but nothing will avoid a need to log back in if cookies expire or are erased. It would be nice if the expiration aspect could be improved.

Jim H

Received from Shal Farley at 10/28/2018 08:42 PM UTC:

Jim,

My Gio cookie expired within the past day or two... with NO NOTICE to me that I could request a login link!!!!

This may be the fundamental reason you and I are at odds on this topic.

My login expired sometime last night. Then when I clicked on the Pending button I had open in a browser I was taken direct to the Login screen.

I wasn't taken to a login screen. I have a browser default home page with links to frequently visited places. There are three links to the message areas of my the three groups I manage at Gio. I clicked one of them, which happened to be to a group that allows non-members to read, but not post. It looked the same as it usually does (because with an expired cookie I was arriving as a non-member) except I was unable to do anything as Admin. It was then "what the...?" with realization of what happened coming after maybe 10 seconds. Past that 10 seconds it wasn't a problem for me.

BUT... when this happens to others, realizing what happened sometimes never happens and they complain to the group Owner and the Owner, not knowing what's up, complains in GMF. I know you've seen these complaints, and on the order of several times weekly.

This is the behavior I've always seen when my Groups.io login expires, so I don't see any possibility of confusion about what happened or what needs to be done.

I accept that YOU don't see any possibility of confusion, but complaints here should tell you that others don't have your level of expertise.

The two boxes to enter Email Address and Password at the top, and the "Or You Can" buttons for alternate log in methods (email, Facebook and Google) below.

My browser fills in my Email Address automatically, I paste my password (copied from Password Safe), click the green Log in button, and am taken to my intended destination: in last night's case GMF's Pending list.

If you and others are having a more confusing experience when your login expires then that's what we should be discussing - exactly where you were when it happened, and where it took you.

I've seen that discussion many times, yet people still have the problem. I'm interested in resolving the root cause vs educating people one at a time forever.

It is possible that there's a bug or missed case or something that led to your dismay. If we can identify it perhaps it can be corrected.

The "bug" is that I can't offhand name a single place that handles login cookies as Gio does... and in 16 years running groups on Yahoo I never encountered this problem personally, nor did any of my subscribers report problems that appeared to have expired cookies as a cause.

Say whatever you will, but this 30-day cookie thing is one (maybe the only one) aspect of groups that Yahoo did much better.

I'll have to wait and see on that one.

No need to wait. Just consider the number of new complaints every week of visiting the Gio site and not being able to see subscribed groups. There are several causes of that problem, but the responses invariably include the need to log in to recreate an expired cookie. If that cookie didn't expire the problem caused by expired cookies would disappear... or if it were refreshed upon each visit the number of complaints would be greatly decreased.

You might also consider the number of threads in which it has been stated by some owners that their members are old and/or confused and didn't deal well with passwords and with acquiring login links. All of this points to the idea that it would be an improvement to handle login cookies differently; i.e., never expire, or refresh on each visit.

Bottom line? Despite momentaryt confusion I know what to do, but the repeated threads about this - and I mean ones I don't start - suggest that it's a problem for quite a few others.

I know that historically Yahoo Groups classic used a login cookie with a two-week expiration, and just like Groups.io one had to sign in again periodically.

I don't know what "historically" means in this context. I don't ever recall a time when I had to re-login to Yahoo with username/password unless I accidentally erased cookies or manually logged out. My experience with managing groups on Yahoo goes back about 16 years.

At some point (maybe around the time of the 2013 Neo roll-out) the Y!Account code changed, but the Y!Group code didn't, with the result that the top bar would indicate that you were logged in, but the Y!Group pages below that would behave as if you were logged out. This became a FAQ in Y!GMF: part of the "browser ritual" was to log out and back in again, resolving the problem. But I haven't noticed that in a while, so perhaps it is no longer the case.

I remember the Neo rollout only too well... and the later Neo "improvements" that were anything but. I don't recall any such problem unless MAYBE it was one time just to get in sync with Neo... and I don't recall even that. My overall Yahoo account password is/was the same as my Y!Groups password. Yahoo News, Mail and Groups worked with the same password/cookie. It was trouble free unless I accidentally deleted cookies or logged out. Then I had to log back in with UserName/Password.

Shal... the only way I can reconcile what you describe with my own experience is if Yahoo refreshed the cookie upon each visit. I definitely visited often enough that a 2-week expiration would never be reached.

Jim H

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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Victoria wrote:

1.????? Activity Search: Putting into the search field the mail address of a member and activating the mail activity search function, I get all the mails of that member, but the date is the one of group.io start.

2.????? Message Search: So far I have not found out yet how to search a certain message. If I put a message by number into the search field, I just get the latest mails.

There is a wiki entry on message search (see?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Using-the-Search-Engine).? It is a whole-word search with Boolean operators, on the message subject line and body only.?Substring searches do not work, nor does searching on any other message header content.

To open a message by message number, don't use the Search button at all...type the number in the "Msg #" box and hit Enter.

Someone else will have to help you with the Activity search. I've used it occasionally but seem to struggle with it just about every time. :-)

Regards,
Bruce?
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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Charlie McB wrote:

Before I submit a suggestion to beta, can you help me imagine a reason why it might be a bad idea for an owner to have at least view access to a subscriber's Email Alias information?? I realize that an Email Alias is part of an individual's personal Groups.io profile, and (unlike Display Name, for example) is not associated with a specific group.? However, it seems reasonable that an owner should be able to know about an email address -- other than a member's original subscription address -- that can post messages to the group.

I would support this suggestion in beta, and in fact the feature has been requested before (see?).

Meanwhile, on a message-by-message basis, you might want to try viewing the header (More->View Source) to see if any related information can be gleaned from there.

Regards,
Bruce?
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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:19 PM, <webmaster@...> wrote:

I have a list of new members to which I'd like to add Display Names for those who didn't include them.

Owners can do this, or Moderators with appropriate permissions (I believe it's "Set Member Subscription Options"). Just go to Admin>Members and click open each member record (click anywhere in the row). The Display Name on the resulting page is an editable field. Update it as appropriate and click the Save button.

Be advised that there is nothing you can do to keep a subscriber from subsequently changing their Display Name to something else. This has been a frequent [and controversial] point of discussion in the beta group (see?).?

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 01:41 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

Are you referring to an Email Alias, as set in the Advanced Settings section of a user's Account pages?

Yes.? Sorry, I should have specifically written Email Alias.

Is there such a means?

Likely not, but it depends on precisely what you're talking about. For Email Alias no; but moderators can, for example, edit a member's Display Name via their page in the Members list (excluding subgroups).

Before I submit a suggestion to beta, can you help me imagine a reason why it might be a bad idea for an owner to have at least view access to a subscriber's Email Alias information?? I realize that an Email Alias is part of an individual's personal Groups.io profile, and (unlike Display Name, for example) is not associated with a specific group.? However, it seems reasonable that an owner should be able to know about an email address -- other than a member's original subscription address -- that can post messages to the group.

-- Charlie

A new group owner here.? I have a list of new members to which I'd like to add Display Names for those who didn't include them.? How do I do that?

I'm still going to contact my ISP, but I thought I would update this slow down of emails using the analyzer.

Many emails get slowed down for as much as three days going from ec2-35-174-158-239.compute-1.amazonaws.com to?mx.cox.rs.oxcs.net?, and many are also slowed down from?web01.groups.io to?cmsmtp ...the last one for four days.

Don

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:32 AM, <webmaster@...> wrote:

Also, at some point in the future, I'm thinking of migrating an entire Yahoo group that I own and moderate, with some 7500 members and over 100K postings, to groups.io.? Can this be done using the free groups.io product?

The transfer agent will not move more than 100k posts to a Basic group. To do that, you have to pay for one year of Premium service ($110).

See:
??/yahootransfer?
? /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Transfer-from-Yahoo-Groups?and
? /g/GroupManagersForum/message/8697?
?
Regards,
Bruce
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On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 05:47 PM, Bart Fried wrote:

This leads me to think that the problem is on Cox.net's side and that they are holding the email for anti-spam verification or similar. He tells me that they are uncooperative and telling him its the forum server's issue.

Assuming that the "login link message" does eventually arrive, he can use the message header analyzer discussed in this other thread to figure out where it's being held up.?

Regards,
Bruce?
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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 01:36 PM, Tony Moody wrote:

• Since then have only had to type in details once when I was travelling and using another computer. Definitely not once a month!
• And another time recently when fiddling* at the Groups.io login page.

?

Normally, on the login page my Emailaddress and Password (obfuscated) are prefilled; I click the Green login button and I'm in.? Every time month after month. That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

?

Tony; strictly speaking you are logging in, even if it does not involve the typing of individual characters to achieve it. Before doing it you cannot access the web UI; after it, you can.

FWIW the method you describe is exactly the same as I and doubtless countless others use, but it seems that some regard it as "too difficult", along with requesting a log - in link every 30 days or so as an alternative.

Chris

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Bruce and Duane:?

Many thanks for your wise replies.? I will not be using moderation to manage new topic - too much of a hassle during a meeting, but the hashtag idea will work fine!? We won't be using chat.

Being a newbie to groups.io, (but not to website and Yahoo! group creation and management) I'm likely have more questions...

Also, at some point in the future, I'm thinking of migrating an entire Yahoo group that I own and moderate, with some 7500 members and over 100K postings, to groups.io.? Can this be done using the free groups.io product?

Thanks again, gentlemen

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• Since then have only had to type in details once when I was travelling and using another computer. Definitely not once a month!
• And another time recently when fiddling* at the Groups.io login page.

Chris,

In this case it /is/ problems with the email service that have

arisen, > ...

That is a point. Relying solely on email links to log in may not be a good option if you are having trouble with your email service.

Unfortunately in cases like Bart's it is a catch-22: there's no way to set up a password in the first place without the email link arriving on time at least once.

(c) "sign up" with a permanent password which will restore account
access via the web UI.

Which requires either of (a) or (b) ...

There is no (d) get the owner or a moderator to do "something".

There may be a (d) ask support to do "something". For cases like Bart's support could possibly create a temporary password or send a login link with an extended expiration time. I've not had the need to ask about that (thankfully).

... can anyone be /certain/ that a lost or stolen device can never be
used to gain access to Groups.io simply by not having a permanent
password set up?

No.

The login by email method is only as secure as your email account. If a crook gains access to your email by phishing, stealing your (unlocked) mobile device, or otherwise then your Groups.io account is exposed.

And that's true whether or not you've set up a password.

And that's true (for most services) even if there is no log in by email mechanism: the crook could simply request a password reset. If that operates without additional authentication then they are in. A typical protection against phishing or password guessing or the like is second-factor authentication*. But even that is of no help if the crook has physical access to your (unlocked) device - be it desktop or mobile.

I wonder if there is any mileage in requesting a method of
/cancelling/ a permanent password so that once normal email service is
restored a member can revert to requesting log - in links.

The two mechanisms are not exclusive. That is, one can always ask for login by email, whether or not you have set password. And in fact that's also the means by which you set a password in the first place, or reset it if you forget it.

I routinely use an email link to log in with my smartphone, but almost always use my password from the desktop. That choice is merely one of which is the more convenient (for me) on the respective type of device.

Shal
* See the Security page in your Groups.io account to set up Two-Factor Authentication.


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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 07:26 AM, I wrote:

I wonder if there is any mileage in requesting a method of cancelling a permanent password so that once normal email service is restored a member can revert to requesting log - in links.

Silly me; of course that exists at the moment in a member's "Account" section where there is a "delete password" tab. I wonder if judicious use of that might be part of the way round the overall problem.

Chris

Virgina,

I am using the same email that I was in June when I was invited into this group. Something odd is going on that is preventing all (three) members except the original owner from seeing this group.

The only real likelihood is that you aren't actually logged in with the same email address which is in the group's Members list.

Have a look at your log-in email by clicking on your name in the upper right corner of any group page:



Compare that to the email address at the bottom of the footer of messages you receive from the group:



Those must match exactly.

If they do, yet you don't see the group on the Your Groups page (click on the Groups.io logo at the top left of any page) then all I can suggest is that you report the situation to [email protected] - there is no setting a group can make that would cause that to fail as long as you continue to receive group messages (that is, as long as you have not been unsubscribed, or changed your subscription address).

Shal
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