¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

  1. GroupManagersForum
  2. Messages
Expanded Topics Messages Polls
Date
FW: [GMF] Questions before transferring a large group from Y!G to G.IO #yahoo #transfer

 

?

If you haven¡¯t seen the discussion yet there is one IO issue you need to know to know about and accept before transferring. Any IO posting that gets put into a member spam folder whether with or without their knowledge WILL result in them being un-subscribed. They then have to find and correct the IO spam status to regain uninterrupted membership. It is a pain in the buns for the owner/moderator.

?

My group is only 800 but 50 of them initially were booted and even now after a month in IO 39 are still in this loop. We are parents of children declining with a terminal disorder so this disconnect for 39 parents is killing me. I may well not have transferred if I knew of this before transferring. YahooGroups just ignores it because they are big enough no other internet identities will block them; not so IO, they say they need to have a good spam record or be blocked by too many entities.

?

Search the GMF archive; there are dozens of postings pro and con on this issue.

?

Good luck in your decision.

?

Paul



[Mod note: this is overstated. See the wiki page about it]]


From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GMF] Questions before transferring a large group from Y!G to G.IO #yahoo #transfer

?

I'm involved with a large group, about to make the transfer from Yahoo to Groups.io, and we have questions.? I am naive at this.? I have much to learn about groups.io, and never enough time.

?

By "large", I mean these:

?- Number of group Members

?- Number of Files and file directories

?- Number of Messages

I don't mean total file size.

?


[ad removed and lengthy quote trimmed by moderator]

?
Re: Message editor acting funky

 

Mark mentioned that there are glitches with the HTML editor and he was working
on it, so maybe that's what you're seeing.
I hope so.

My ISP's email server just came back online, so here's that screenshot I was talking about. Top half shows what happens as it first loads and the bottom what it looks like after the edit box renders.

Bruce

-- Sent from my humble desktop computer

New-1.jpg

Re: Automatic Deletion of Members If Message Marked As Spam #poll

 

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 07:25 am, <mike@...> wrote:
...simply send a message to the moderators saying something like?"Please re-verify that X is still a member of this group."
I think that misses a couple of points. Firstly if the "recipient" concerned wasn't a member of the Group then they wouldn't have been sent the email in the first place; secondly your suggestion includes nothing that would prompt the recipient to actually do something in an attempt to either prevent incoming traffic from being marked as spam or at the very least reduce the incidence.

Your proposal could go on ad infinitum with no action being taken to find a "cure". In the meantime those MSPs operating FBLs might spot that the spam just kept rolling in, and that isn't desirable. Whatever course of action is adopted there has to be something that prompts action on the part of the recipient.

Chris
Re: Message editor acting funky

 

I happened to think that my posting preference might be involved.? Turns out that using HTML preference has the "Quote Whole Post" glitch, but markdown and plain text show the icon.? Mark mentioned that there are glitches with the HTML editor and he was working on it, so maybe that's what you're seeing.

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
Re: Questions before transferring a large group from Y!G to G.IO #yahoo #transfer

 

On 04/13/2018 08:46 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

If it takes 4 days, will those 4 days of new messages become lost? We
average a couple dozen messages daily.
Yes, message posted to the Y!Group after the transfer agent collects its
messages will be orphaned on the Y!Group.
Didn't Mark write something about being able to do a second sweep, to
pick up orphaned messages. The limitation being that it has to be
specifically requested.

jonathon
Re: Downloading photos

 

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 12:49 am, Annick Phillips wrote:
I hope they can figure out eventually how it was done at the Yahoo groups.
Annick -- I posted a request to this effect in the beta group. As is all too frequently the case around here, it got shot down quicker than a wounded duck...but at least I tried.

Bruce
Re: Message editor acting funky

 

I've tried Chrome and Firefox in XP, and Edge and Chrome in W10. Same story.

I tried disabling and reenabling attachments in the group settings. No help.

It's happening here in GMF and also in other groups.

At this point my ISP's email server is down so I can't send that screenshot yet. I'd think this might be relevant if my other group subscribers weren't experiencing the same problem.

Scratching my head, for sure.

Bruce
Re: Automatic Deletion of Members If Message Marked As Spam #poll

[email protected]
 

??As a complete "non-techie" -?it would seem to me that it should be simple?to NOT?automatically?remove a member,?but to simply send a message to the moderators saying something like?"Please re-verify that X is still a member of this group." The system should NOT?automatically remove any member.? ?
Re: Message editor acting funky

 

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 06:35 am, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I have tried refreshing the page and clearing my browser cache.

Could it be browser specific?? I'm not seeing any problems, other than the "Quote Whole Post" that Gerald mentioned, using an older version of Firefox.

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
Re: Message editor acting funky

 

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 12:50 am, Gerald Boutin wrote:
I am assuming you are referring to the New Topic editor since you mention Send/Discard.?
That's correct.
In any case, the Attachment button and icon show up and function properly for both editors. Perhaps you just have a blank button. If you click where the attachment button should be, does it bring up the attach dialog?
I've tried hovering and clicking all over the place and nothing happens. Because I can't attach a file to this one, I will have to send you a screen shot in an email.

I doubt that refreshing the screen is a valid operation and may well be browser dependent. I can't say if something changed there since I don't refresh the page when I am in the midst of composing a message.?To summarize, between the New Topic and Reply editor, the only issue I see is a missing graphic for the "Quote Whole Post" button.
I have tried refreshing the page and clearing my browser cache. The problem first came to my notice when my subscribers started complaining. I guess the next step is a bug report.

Bruce
Re: Downloading photos

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Gerald, Thank you for that great tip about zooming in with Chrome! So helpful!

?

Annick Phillips

?
Re: Database Row Question #issue #bug

 

The Databases of Groups.io is not (yet, maybe never) so featured. Google Sheets is. Better yet for registrations is Google Forms which maps online form fields to spreadsheet cells, one row per filled--in form.
Re: groups and spam

 

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 04:59 pm, I wrote:
Step 1 has to be to prevent your members list being visible by all the members. (This may have limited impact as your troublemaker may have downloaded a complete list anyway, but you have to start somewhere.
I have just realised that while doing the above may be a good idea regardless, it may not actually help much, even if you persuade your entire membership (how many, just out of interest?) to change their email addresses, for the simple reason that Group posts sent to members by email show the originator's email address regardless, and I haven't spotted a way of suppressing that anywhere in "Settings".

All your malicious poster would need to do is pick out the email addresses from the outgoing emails. I am assuming, of course, that this is an "inside job" and that your troublemaker is a member who can see all the emails.

I can think of a perhaps underhand way of setting some bait, although whether the trap would actually catch anyone is uncertain. I'll keep that one to myself for now.

Regards,

Chris
Re: Questions before transferring a large group from Y!G to G.IO #yahoo #transfer

 

Andy,

... but it may be the biggest one to move from Yahoo.?

Looks like it. TeaneckShuls had over 10,000 at the time of its move. If there's a larger it is unlisted.
?
Any known or suspected issues with transferring such a large group??

I don't think so.

We passed 2^16 members a while ago.? Is that a threshold of concern?

Not since Mark upgraded the servers from the 80286 based models... ;-)

I think our total file space usage is OK.? Yahoo shows us at under 110MB, which I **think** includes both Files and Photos (does anyone know if it does?).?

It does not, except for Photos that happen to be stored in the Files section.

There's a separate count of Photo + Attachment space at the top of the Albums tab in your Y!Groups Photo section. That one is usually the factor that hits groups -- it caught me off-guard in transferring my group of classmates because the total shown by Yahoo is way off - it failed to include at least one album with hundreds of direct-from-camera originals (Up to 4k x 5k resolution) that itself totaled over 1 GB. The transfer agent put my transfer "on pause" and emailed me to ask what to do about it. Setting a max upload size of 2k x 2k brought the storage under the limit without affecting the images noticeably.
?
What happens while the transfer is on-going?? Will members lose access until it's done?

No.

But depending on how you handle things, they may not know they have access until it is done -- Groups.io's default "You've been added" message and your Groups.io group's Welcome member notice won't be sent to the copied members until the entire transfer is complete. So one possibility is to tell your members to wait until they receive those notices.

The groups I've personally been involved with transferring have been much smaller, so my perception was that there was very little "window of opportunity" between when members were copied in and when the notices went out, signifying that the rest of the content was in as well.
?
?If it takes 4 days, will those 4 days of new messages become lost?? We average a couple dozen messages daily.

Yes, message posted to the Y!Group after the transfer agent collects its messages will be orphaned on the Y!Group.

I know member addresses (subscriptions)? are copied into the Groups.io group before any of the content of the group, but I don't know in what order things are gathered from the Y!Group, there could even be some parallelism involved.

Whether that's a problem or not depends a bit on how your group operates. If most members read and post by email they may not notice much except the change to the addressing and footer formatting of the messages.

(4)? What exactly happens if Yahoo behaves the way it does lately, during the transfer?? Would the transfer miss some [Members, Files, Photos, Messages, whatever] because Yahoo balks, like it does so often?? Or does the automated transfer process retry until it gets what it needs??

The automated process does retry, but it has a limit and some items may still not be copied over.
?
As you can imagine, it would be a headache to have to verify that all 12000 files survived the transfer.

You, at the email address you used to sign-in when you initiated the transfer, will receive a summary email at the end of the transfer. It will have statistics about how much made it.
?
Of course it's a matter of Yahoo's current health, and some probability.? Has there been much feedback about lost messages or files during the transfer?

Some members here have commented about their experiences with that here. In my groups the only missing content were some database rows that had invalid content.
?
We have a couple of "invalid" directories on Yahoo.? Something got messed up in Yahoo's file system and they always return an error.? They are empty, but can't be deleted.? Is there anything we need to do so that they don't kill the transfer process?

I'm not sure what you could do. Mark (er, the transfer agent) will likely get involved if the automation runs into any issues.
?
(5)? Are there things the Moderators should set or do on the end, before starting the transfer?? Or is everything reversible in case we screw up the settings?

The only irreversible setting is choosing to make your group's Messages section "private" (available to members only). So that's one thing you'll want to decide upon before starting the transfer.

Another thing to think about is whether your Groups.io group will want to use the Subgroup feature. If you do you probably want to create at least one before starting the transfer - that has the effect of changing the email and web address format for your group.
?
(6)? For a group this large / this active, are the Moderators better off getting some experience under their belts first, before taking on this transfer and experiencing a trial by fire?

I did, but I don't really know if it was needed. That is, I invited the mods and co-owners of my Y!Group into the Groups.io group soon after I created it, and well before discussing the move with the Y!Group membership. We kicked the tires a little, but there's not really much learning curve to day-to-day group management chores.

One thing that is different is how moderation for new members is handled. In Y!Groups there was only a group-level setting to cause new members to be put on moderation. In Groups.io there's that plus a count of messages and a companion state of the member's Posting Privileges. Together those implement an automation of removing members from moderation after you (a group mod) approve N consecutive posts from the member. N is a group setting that appears if you select New Member moderation.

But in particular, members of your Y!Group whose Posting Privilege is currently set at "Override - Posts are moderated" will copy over with the equivalent privilege in Groups.io, which is an indefinite state. Meaning that they will not be handled by the new member automation - even though that may have been why they had that setting in the Y!Group - and if you later wish to take them off moderation you'll have to do that manually, just as you would have in the Y!Group.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list
Database Row Question #issue #bug

 

Hello Everyone,?

I'm looking for an idea or two if anyone has some ideas.?

Created a simple Database, I want my members to be able to edit the content of a row, but not delete the entire row (by default this seems to be locked in). Or if there were a way to unlock one column and have the content in it be editable by members.

Essentially we are creating a signup sheet where folks can signup for various things, of course we'd prefer they cannot delete all the other entries, but one thing at a time.

Thoughts please??

-Jerry
Re: Downloading photos

Gerald Boutin
 

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 06:05 pm, Annick Phillips wrote:

I did find that if I used Google Chrome for my browser to access the group, when I download a photo it allows me to save it as a jpeg when I right click on it, but still I¡¯d rather have the options we had at Yahoo. I don¡¯t always want to save a photo to my hard drive just to be able to zoom in on details like I can when it opens up in Windows Photo Viewer. Thanks, Bruce, for requesting that change at the beta group.

?

Annick Phillips

?

Annick,

You can use the Chrome browser to zoom in on photos by using CTRL + mouse-wheel.

--
Gerald
Re: Message editor acting funky

Gerald Boutin
 

Bruce,

I am assuming you are referring to the New Topic editor since you mention Send/Discard. On the other hand, the "Quote Whole Post" button in the Reply editor no longer has a graphic, but does still function properly.

In any case, the Attachment button and icon show up and function properly for both editors. Perhaps you just have a blank button. If you click where the attachment button should be, does it bring up the attach dialog?

I doubt that refreshing the screen is a valid operation and may well be browser dependent. I can't say if something changed there since I don't refresh the page when I am in the midst of composing a message.?To summarize, between the New Topic and Reply editor, the only issue I see is a missing graphic for the "Quote Whole Post" button.
?
--?
Gerald


On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 05:00 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Ever since Mark did his icons thing last evening the online message editor is acting funky. It works, but the button to add an attachment is missing.

If I refresh the screen, "Preview" and "Edit" buttons appear along with "Send" and "Discard"...then when the editor window subsequently renders the "Preview" and "Edit" buttons disappear.

I assume he's working on this but wanted to make sure our group is not the only one experiencing this problem.

Bruce
Questions before transferring a large group from Y!G to G.IO #yahoo #transfer

 

I'm involved with a large group, about to make the transfer from Yahoo to Groups.io, and we have questions.? I am naive at this.? I have much to learn about groups.io, and never enough time.
?
By "large", I mean these:
?- Number of group Members
?- Number of Files and file directories
?- Number of Messages
I don't mean total file size.
?
The group has somewhat under 70000 members.? I know we will lose at least a few thousand right away -- people who Yahoo says were "Bouncing" even though some are active participants who just don't use email for group access.? Then I figure we will lose several more after the transfer -- people whose accounts are bouncing but Yahoo doesn't know it.? Yahoo's bounce detection stopped working (or was disabled) several months ago.
?
Anyway, ....
?
(1)? I think it will be the largest group to Transfer, in number of Members.? It won't be the largest groups.io group -- nothing can beat the [Updates] group -- but it may be the biggest one to move from Yahoo.? Any known or suspected issues with transferring such a large group?? We passed 2^16 members a while ago.? Is that a threshold of concern?
?
(2)? The group has many Files, around 12000 Files in 4000 directories.? Can groups.io handle those numbers OK?
?
Any known issues with filenames?? Directory names?? Depth of subdirectory levels?? Length of the filespec?
?
I think our total file space usage is OK.? Yahoo shows us at under 110MB, which I **think** includes both Files and Photos (does anyone know if it does?).? If that number is right, we have a ways to go before the 1GB limit is an issue.? We have no attachments, so no worries there.
?
(3)? The group has a lot of Messages; I think it is over 100000.? I see this could make the transfer take some time.? Any estimates of how long?
?
What happens while the transfer is on-going?? Will members lose access until it's done?
?
If it takes 4 days, will those 4 days of new messages become lost?? We average a couple dozen messages daily.
?
(4)? What exactly happens if Yahoo behaves the way it does lately, during the transfer?? Would the transfer miss some [Members, Files, Photos, Messages, whatever] because Yahoo balks, like it does so often?? Or does the automated transfer process retry until it gets what it needs?? I have not seen Yahoo at 100% for several weeks now, and I don't expect we ever will again.
?
As you can imagine, it would be a headache to have to verify that all 12000 files survived the transfer.
?
Of course it's a matter of Yahoo's current health, and some probability.? Has there been much feedback about lost messages or files during the transfer?
?
We have a couple of "invalid" directories on Yahoo.? Something got messed up in Yahoo's file system and they always return an error.? They are empty, but can't be deleted.? Is there anything we need to do so that they don't kill the transfer process?
?
(5)? Are there things the Moderators should set or do on the groups.io end, before starting the transfer?? Or is everything reversible in case we screw up the settings?
?
(6)? For a group this large / this active, are the Moderators better off getting some groups.io experience under their belts first, before taking on this transfer and experiencing a trial by fire?
?
Many thanks!

Andy
?
Re: Downloading photos

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks for that info, Duane. Still, it would be nice to be able to open the photo on screen and have the ability to zoom in on it without having to save it to my hard drive first or having to switch to a different browser. I hope they can figure out eventually how it was done at the Yahoo groups.

?

Annick Phillips

?
Re: Downloading photos

 

At one time, Mark changed the button to force a download like you want.? Unfortunately it didn't work (actually caused weird problems) with several browsers, so was reverted to its current status.? Right clicking on the photo will open a menu that allows you to save it.? On Firefox, it says "Save image as..."

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
41901 - 41920 of 49118