Re: profesh flutist? profesh classicist?
Gosh.? That must mean that the 16 holes were drilled by a professional.? My partner, Eric the oboe, worked in the ‘professional’ world for the majority of his working life.? I shared some of our mails with him over breakfast, and he said that professional musicians would never refer to themselves that way and if they did, it would be a ‘Micky take’.? We’ve been ridiculously busy lately.? You should see the state of our house!? If I call myself a professional house cleaner maybe things will get better.? Meanwhile, I’ll count the holes in my flute.? That should keep me too busy to mop! ? Regards, Sandy (with ducks) ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Edna Bloom
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 6:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Flutenet] profesh flutist? profesh classicist?? And how about the cheesy instruments for sale on certain big name merchants websites that are labelled "professional 16 holes" flute?? "Professional" is a nebulous term.
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Love it!? I’m going to use that ‘new reed’ line. ? Regards, Sandy (with ducks) ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Louis Bertrand via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 5:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Flutenet] Classically Trained?? I pull out the "but I'm classically trained!" when our band leader tries to get us to learn improvisation. My other smarty pants saying, when I'm out of tune, "sorry, new reed". What the hey, it works for the clarinets when they squeak the high notes. ------- Original Message -------
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Re: profesh flutist? profesh classicist?
I made pretty good money playing on an Armstrong 104. Same with my Jupiter 665. I guess that makes them professional instruments…..LOL
Made more money with them than I have with my Miyazawa. But I definitely can play more advanced stuff easier on the Miyazawa… No doubt!!!! ? Phineas Henshaw
ASI/EE ?
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From: Edna BloomSent: Thursday, August 3, 2023 3:08 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Flutenet] profesh flutist? profesh classicist? ? And how about the cheesy instruments for sale on certain big name merchants websites that are labelled "professional 16 holes" flute?? "Professional" is a nebulous term. ? ?
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I found this on another music site, loved it, and thought I’d share it…
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Sandy said “ Once they learn to play their instrument, they can play lots of different music.? It’s the foundation that matters.”
Well said!!
On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 12:23 PM sandy.sexton via <sandy.sexton= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Phineas, Great to hear from you.? I don’t know that classical players down play the work of other types of musicians.? The couple of players I know who are in the Melbourne Symph aren’t like that.? What’s interesting is that the massively talented folks who aren’t classically trained are labelled so, seemingly as the ultimate compliment.? Agree about the dedication.? My brother never had a music lesson in his life, as far as I know, but from an early age he spent hours and hours every day in his room playing and practising bass guitar.? He could play along to anything by ear and had a lot of success playing in a band/bands.? He then started fiddling on piano….? The thing is, he loved it, spent a lot of time playing and became really good at it.? No classical training required to do what he enjoyed.? We’ve had a couple of folks come and join our community band who inform us (with a hint of pomposity) that they are a ‘grade 6’ musician – but can’t play grade 2 band charts.? They learned the pieces for their exams, but never really learned to play.? We run a learner programme in our band, and sometimes people will say, “I can’t play that piece.? I haven’t learned it yet.”? I tend to reply that their aim is to learn to play their instrument, not a series of pieces.? Once they learn to play their instrument, they can play lots of different music.? It’s the foundation that matters. ? Sandy (with ducks) ? ? Sandy et all, Why is it that Classical players down play the work and dedication it takes to be proficient as a musician period. There are fellow musicians I know that spend their whole life practicing difficult classics. But the minute you take them to play at a Jazz/Blues/Rock jam, most of those same great well trained classical player could not pull a simple 8 bar ?improvised solo. At the same time I know great players that cannot even read expressive symbols on a basic music pieces…….? It takes dedication to be good. No matter what you do.? Now, do people with a lack of dedication sometimes use it as an excuse to suck? Yes. “I play blues but I have soul because I am not “trained”. May musicians like that burn at the stake……lol I run into this a lot in Motogp/motorcycle racing……. Been a long time Sandy!!! ? ? Hi Jen,? Yes, I hear your pain.? People often don’t get the level of dedication it takes to be ‘classically trained’.? It’s interesting though that such training seems to be valued.? The fabulous career of Ian Anderson and his creativity are put aside when the ultimate compliment becomes “he was classically trained”.? There’s a caveat here, because I don’t know anything about his training.? I enjoyed the music of Jethro Tull and was lucky enough to go to a couple of concerts.? But getting back to the topic, ?I have to hold my tongue on occasion when people claim great dedication to their playing of a musical instrument because they practice for (gasp) two hours a week.? It’s possible to enjoy music making on all sorts of levels, and I’m the first to tell beginners that it’s fun to play, regardless of the standard you reach.? However it would cause grinding of teeth to hear the wow two hours a week person claim to be ‘classically trained’. ? Greetings from downunder, Sandy (with ducks)
? ? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me.
-- Composed on my touchscreen device. Please excuse typos.
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Re: profesh flutist? profesh classicist?
And how about the cheesy instruments for sale on certain big name merchants websites that are labelled "professional 16 holes" flute?? "Professional" is a nebulous term.
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As moderator of Flutenet I want to thank you all for being so kind and diplomatic during this discussion. This topic could have easily gotten "heated".? Most, if not all of you participating in the topic are "old timers".? You learned well our rule to "play nicely". Meaning be kind and gentle with one another.
CONGRATULATIONS! WELL DONE!
Now, keep it up. ?
Cheers!!
Papa Smurf/Keith
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?Maybe you’re right! Maybe she did mean both James and Ian instead of James and I.? I think you rightly clarified what “classically trained” means for those that are unsure though, so either of those statements would be in error.?
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On Aug 3, 2023, at 3:31 PM, Jen Cluff <jen@...> wrote:
? Sorry when Amanda wrote: "Both James and I are classically trained."
I thought that she meant "James and Ian" and just left off some letters. I realize she's blind and proof-reading isn't easy when you are not sighted, so I assumed Ian instead of "I". Jen ______________ Amanda wrote to Flutenet: hi Cheryl. I'm glad you're a player of the flute. So am I. By the way, my name is Amanda. Feel free to email privately if you have any questions. Anyway, a flute player you should listen to is James Galway. He's fabulous. He's great. He has very good intonation, and is a virtuoso. I have been playing this beautiful instrument for 22 years. Another gentleman that plays the flute is?Jethro?Tall's front man Ian Anderson. Ian uses the flute in a very unusual way though. Both James and I are classically trained. Ian uses it in a rock context which I find to be very entertaining.
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Sorry when Amanda wrote: "Both James and I are classically trained."
I thought that she meant "James and Ian" and just left off some letters. I realize she's blind and proof-reading isn't easy when you are not sighted, so I assumed Ian instead of "I". Jen ______________ Amanda wrote to Flutenet: hi Cheryl. I'm glad you're a player of the flute. So am I. By the way, my name is Amanda. Feel free to email privately if you have any questions. Anyway, a flute player you should listen to is James Galway. He's fabulous. He's great. He has very good intonation, and is a virtuoso. I have been playing this beautiful instrument for 22 years. Another gentleman that plays the flute is?Jethro?Tall's front man Ian Anderson. Ian uses the flute in a very unusual way though. Both James and I are classically trained. Ian uses it in a rock context which I find to be very entertaining.
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Dear all, I pull out the "but I'm classically trained!" when our band leader tries to get us to learn improvisation. My other smarty pants saying, when I'm out of tune, "sorry, new reed". What the hey, it works for the clarinets when they squeak the high notes. All the best ?--Louis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 3rd, 2023 at 2:30 PM, Cindy <Flewts@...> wrote:
I wouldn't call myself a classically trained flutist. I never had flute lessons, I just had the group lessons in elementary school, then sectionals every week along with band practice until high school, when we just played every day. I continued to play as an adult. I've played for over 60 years, and have been a paid performer for ... hmm.... do I count the years when I played as a paid soloist or sub when called upon, or do I count the years when I began playing regularly in groups that were paid as a group, or do I count the 20+ years when I was personally paid to perform with groups, or when I volunteered in pit orchestras for musicals or.... Take your pick, 20 - 40+ years.
So am I just a flute player? Am I a flutist? They keep paying me, so I must be doing something right. Call me whatever except late to lunch (the way I've always heard that phrase).
Hi Jen, When Jethro Tull was starting, Anderson's bandmates thought he was a lousy guitarist so he picked up the flute. So, yes, he is selft-taught. I suspect he got a lot of ideas (flutter tonguing, singing into the flute) from Jazz flutists, notably Rahsaan Roland Kirk (a very early Jethro Tull recording includes "Serenade to a Cuckoo"). Later, however, he did take lessons to among other things, use correct fingerings. Hope this helps --Louis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 3rd, 2023 at 12:27 PM, Jen Cluff < jen@...> wrote:
Dear Flutenutz, I've had a shock reaction to the idea that Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull was (according to one post yesterday) "Classically Trained" as a flute player.
Do people who say this know how long Classical Training takes?
It isn't just one year of lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street. It's six to ten years of very difficult exams and recital performances in the style of "Classical Music" which, like "Classical Ballet" or "Classical Languages" (Greek/Latin) take many many many years to perfect because they are "classic" and have lots of historically correct RULES of style etc.
No, Ian Anderson was entirely self-taught, and in one interview said he got a fingering chart from his daughter who was in Grade 8 at the time, and played flute in band.
There's a huge amount of difference between "classical training" and taking a few lessons. Training is very serious, like training in a sport for the Olympics. You don't just make up your own way of doing something and then claim to be "classically trained". Those two things are opposite.
Mind you, to be a true innovator, and to invent something entirely new (like Anderson did) is a different skill than taking training. Jen
--
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Hi Phineas, Great to hear from you.? I don’t know that classical players down play the work of other types of musicians.? The couple of players I know who are in the Melbourne Symph aren’t like that.? What’s interesting is that the massively talented folks who aren’t classically trained are labelled so, seemingly as the ultimate compliment.? Agree about the dedication.? My brother never had a music lesson in his life, as far as I know, but from an early age he spent hours and hours every day in his room playing and practising bass guitar.? He could play along to anything by ear and had a lot of success playing in a band/bands.? He then started fiddling on piano….? The thing is, he loved it, spent a lot of time playing and became really good at it.? No classical training required to do what he enjoyed.? We’ve had a couple of folks come and join our community band who inform us (with a hint of pomposity) that they are a ‘grade 6’ musician – but can’t play grade 2 band charts.? They learned the pieces for their exams, but never really learned to play.? We run a learner programme in our band, and sometimes people will say, “I can’t play that piece.? I haven’t learned it yet.”? I tend to reply that their aim is to learn to play their instrument, not a series of pieces.? Once they learn to play their instrument, they can play lots of different music.? It’s the foundation that matters. ? Sandy (with ducks) ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Phineas Henshaw via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 4:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Flutenet] Rock&Roll pianist? Sandy et all, Why is it that Classical players down play the work and dedication it takes to be proficient as a musician period. There are fellow musicians I know that spend their whole life practicing difficult classics. But the minute you take them to play at a Jazz/Blues/Rock jam, most of those same great well trained classical player could not pull a simple 8 bar ?improvised solo. At the same time I know great players that cannot even read expressive symbols on a basic music pieces……. ?It takes dedication to be good. No matter what you do.? Now, do people with a lack of dedication sometimes use it as an excuse to suck? Yes. “I play blues but I have soul because I am not “trained”. May musicians like that burn at the stake……lol I run into this a lot in Motogp/motorcycle racing……. Been a long time Sandy!!! ?
On Aug 3, 2023, at 12:55 PM, sandy.sexton via groups.io <sandy.sexton@...> wrote:
? Hi Jen,? Yes, I hear your pain.? People often don’t get the level of dedication it takes to be ‘classically trained’.? It’s interesting though that such training seems to be valued.? The fabulous career of Ian Anderson and his creativity are put aside when the ultimate compliment becomes “he was classically trained”.? There’s a caveat here, because I don’t know anything about his training.? I enjoyed the music of Jethro Tull and was lucky enough to go to a couple of concerts. ?But getting back to the topic, ?I have to hold my tongue on occasion when people claim great dedication to their playing of a musical instrument because they practice for (gasp) two hours a week.? It’s possible to enjoy music making on all sorts of levels, and I’m the first to tell beginners that it’s fun to play, regardless of the standard you reach.? However it would cause grinding of teeth to hear the wow two hours a week person claim to be ‘classically trained’. ? Greetings from downunder, Sandy (with ducks)
? ? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me.
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Jen, I agree wholeheartedly on what it takes to be a classically trained flutist. Even though I’ve been taking lessons, studying classical pieces, practicing almost everyday for 15 years (plus several years as a child learning the basics) I am certainly not a “classically trained” flutist. I’m just a hobbyist doing the best I can to improve my playing.?
But, to be fair, Amanda did not say Ian Anderson is a classically trained flutist. I reread her post. However, she did say that she was.?
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On Aug 3, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jen Cluff <jen@...> wrote:
? Dear Flutenutz, I've had a shock reaction to the idea that Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull was (according to one post yesterday) "Classically Trained" as a flute player.
Do people who say this know how long Classical Training takes??
It isn't just one year of lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street. ?It's six to ten years of very difficult exams and recital performances in the style of "Classical Music" which, like "Classical Ballet" or "Classical Languages" (Greek/Latin) take many many many years to perfect because they are "classic" and have lots of historically correct RULES of style etc.
No, Ian Anderson was entirely self-taught, and in one interview said he got a fingering chart from his daughter who was in Grade 8 at the time, and played flute in band.
There's a huge amount of difference between "classical training" and taking a few lessons. Training is very serious, like training in a sport for the Olympics. You don't just make up your own way of doing something and then claim to be "classically trained". Those two things are opposite.
Mind you, to be a true innovator, and to invent something entirely new (like Anderson did) is a different skill than taking training. Jen
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I wouldn't call myself a classically trained flutist.? I never had flute lessons, I just had the group lessons in elementary school, then sectionals every week along with band practice until high school, when we just played every day.? I continued to play as an adult.? I've played for over 60 years, and have been a paid performer for ...? hmm....? do I count the years when I played as a paid soloist or sub when called upon, or do I count the years when I began playing regularly in groups that were paid as a group, or do I count the 20+ years when I was personally paid to perform with groups, or when I volunteered in pit orchestras for musicals or....? Take your pick, 20 - 40+ years.
So am I just a flute player?? Am I a flutist?? They keep paying me, so I must be doing something right.? Call me whatever except late to lunch (the way I've always heard that phrase).
Hi Jen, When Jethro Tull was starting, Anderson's bandmates thought he was a lousy guitarist so he picked up the flute. So, yes, he is selft-taught. I suspect he got a lot of ideas (flutter tonguing, singing into the flute) from Jazz flutists, notably Rahsaan?Roland Kirk (a very early Jethro Tull recording includes "Serenade to a Cuckoo"). Later, however, he did take lessons to among other things, use correct fingerings. Hope this helps ?--Louis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 3rd, 2023 at 12:27 PM, Jen Cluff < jen@...> wrote:
Dear Flutenutz, I've had a shock reaction to the idea that Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull was (according to one post yesterday) "Classically Trained" as a flute player.
Do people who say this know how long Classical Training takes?
It isn't just one year of lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street. It's six to ten years of very difficult exams and recital performances in the style of "Classical Music" which, like "Classical Ballet" or "Classical Languages" (Greek/Latin) take many many many years to perfect because they are "classic" and have lots of historically correct RULES of style etc.
No, Ian Anderson was entirely self-taught, and in one interview said he got a fingering chart from his daughter who was in Grade 8 at the time, and played flute in band.
There's a huge amount of difference between "classical training" and taking a few lessons. Training is very serious, like training in a sport for the Olympics. You don't just make up your own way of doing something and then claim to be "classically trained". Those two things are opposite.
Mind you, to be a true innovator, and to invent something entirely new (like Anderson did) is a different skill than taking training. Jen
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Sandy et all,
Why is it that Classical players down play the work and dedication it takes to be proficient as a musician period. There are fellow musicians I know that spend their whole life practicing difficult classics. But the minute you take them to play at a Jazz/Blues/Rock jam, most of those same great well trained classical player could not pull a simple 8 bar ?improvised solo. At the same time I know great players that cannot even read expressive symbols on a basic music pieces……. ?It takes dedication to be good. No matter what you do.?
Now, do people with a lack of dedication sometimes use it as an excuse to suck? Yes. “I play blues but I have soul because I am not “trained”. May musicians like that burn at the stake……lol I run into this a lot in Motogp/motorcycle racing…….
Been a long time Sandy!!!
Phineas?
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On Aug 3, 2023, at 12:55 PM, sandy.sexton via groups.io <sandy.sexton@...> wrote:
? Hi Jen,? Yes, I hear your pain.? People often don’t get the level of dedication it takes to be ‘classically trained’.? It’s interesting though that such training seems to be valued.? The fabulous career of Ian Anderson and his creativity are put aside when the ultimate compliment becomes “he was classically trained”.? There’s a caveat here, because I don’t know anything about his training.? I enjoyed the music of Jethro Tull and was lucky enough to go to a couple of concerts. ?But getting back to the topic, ?I have to hold my tongue on occasion when people claim great dedication to their playing of a musical instrument because they practice for (gasp) two hours a week.? It’s possible to enjoy music making on all sorts of levels, and I’m the first to tell beginners that it’s fun to play, regardless of the standard you reach.? However it would cause grinding of teeth to hear the wow two hours a week person claim to be ‘classically trained’. ? Greetings from downunder, Sandy (with ducks)
? ? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me.
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Hi Jen,? Yes, I hear your pain.? People often don’t get the level of dedication it takes to be ‘classically trained’.? It’s interesting though that such training seems to be valued.? The fabulous career of Ian Anderson and his creativity are put aside when the ultimate compliment becomes “he was classically trained”.? There’s a caveat here, because I don’t know anything about his training.? I enjoyed the music of Jethro Tull and was lucky enough to go to a couple of concerts. ?But getting back to the topic, ?I have to hold my tongue on occasion when people claim great dedication to their playing of a musical instrument because they practice for (gasp) two hours a week.? It’s possible to enjoy music making on all sorts of levels, and I’m the first to tell beginners that it’s fun to play, regardless of the standard you reach.? However it would cause grinding of teeth to hear the wow two hours a week person claim to be ‘classically trained’. ? Greetings from downunder, Sandy (with ducks)
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jen Cluff
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 2:35 AM
To: Flutenet group <[email protected]>
Subject: [Flutenet] Rock&Roll pianist? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me.
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Hi Jen, When Jethro Tull was starting, Anderson's bandmates thought he was a lousy guitarist so he picked up the flute. So, yes, he is selft-taught. I suspect he got a lot of ideas (flutter tonguing, singing into the flute) from Jazz flutists, notably Rahsaan?Roland Kirk (a very early Jethro Tull recording includes "Serenade to a Cuckoo"). Later, however, he did take lessons to among other things, use correct fingerings. Hope this helps ?--Louis
------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 3rd, 2023 at 12:27 PM, Jen Cluff <jen@...> wrote:
Dear Flutenutz, I've had a shock reaction to the idea that Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull was (according to one post yesterday) "Classically Trained" as a flute player.
Do people who say this know how long Classical Training takes?
It isn't just one year of lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street. It's six to ten years of very difficult exams and recital performances in the style of "Classical Music" which, like "Classical Ballet" or "Classical Languages" (Greek/Latin) take many many many years to perfect because they are "classic" and have lots of historically correct RULES of style etc.
No, Ian Anderson was entirely self-taught, and in one interview said he got a fingering chart from his daughter who was in Grade 8 at the time, and played flute in band.
There's a huge amount of difference between "classical training" and taking a few lessons. Training is very serious, like training in a sport for the Olympics. You don't just make up your own way of doing something and then claim to be "classically trained". Those two things are opposite.
Mind you, to be a true innovator, and to invent something entirely new (like Anderson did) is a different skill than taking training. Jen
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profesh flutist? profesh classicist?
Dear Flutelovers, This word-problem is a bit like Amanda's situation the other day with someone arguing with her over who's a "flutist" as opposed to someone who is simply playing a flute. Obviously in some circles they use terms like "Professional Flutist" "Professional Musician" or "Flautist/Flutist" to mean that the person is fully employed year round performing on the flute as their primary job in the world.
Whereas in other circles anyone who plays a flute is considered a flutist. (including children and teens who may be beginners).
And what Phineas wrote is interesting for sure.?
I suppose it's like being a "scientist". People bandy the term about but there's a difference between knowing what "science" means, being interested in science, doing scientific work at some point in your life, or being a full-on fully-trained scientist who's doing full time science as their employment every day for fifty years.
?The latter group would likely have the strongest opinion on what being a scientist truly is, while everyone else has a bit of knowledge about science.
And of course I have to add that I know several folk/pop and rock musicians who cannot read music at all but that wouldn't stop a neighbour from spreading rumours that that musician was "classically trained". Anyway, they are just words. Jen
Phineas wrote: I was classically trained. But what does that really mean. I was trained by a classical Flautist and I did some courses at a conservatory. I thought it was the style of the training and the cirrulum. Whether you can play a piece. Granted, the conservatory or the teacher/instructor may have requirements based on performance in order to pass a course. ......
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And then there are people like pianist Keith Jarrett, who was well trained in many genres, and who had a terrific follow-on classical music career after playing years of jazz and rock music with some of the greats.?
Music binds us all together.?
Alice Preston
Jen,
I was classically trained. But what does that really mean. I was trained by a classical Flautist and I did some courses at a conservatory. I thought it was the style of the training and the cirrulum. Whether you can play a piece. Granted, the conservatory or the teacher/instructor may have requirements based on performance in order to pass a course.
When it comes to rock/Jazz/metal/funk players being “classically trained”, most of the time it just meant they had a good basic understanding of theory and were good at sight reading. Most of the time, this meant they either were formally trained or went to college. But those types of players are lumped up into classically trained.
Jen, I am not saying you are wrong…AT ALL. I am just giving my perspective because I rarely play Classical style music at all anymore. I am only just giving a perspective of I see most non-classical musicians view that statement.
Phineas Henshaw
ASI/EE ? ? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me. ? ?
-- Composed on my touchscreen device. Please excuse typos.
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Jen,
I was classically trained. But what does that really mean. I was trained by a classical Flautist and I did some courses at a conservatory. I thought it was the style of the training and the cirrulum. Whether you can play a piece. Granted, the conservatory or the teacher/instructor may have requirements based on performance in order to pass a course.
When it comes to rock/Jazz/metal/funk players being “classically trained”, most of the time it just meant they had a good basic understanding of theory and were good at sight reading. Most of the time, this meant they either were formally trained or went to college. But those types of players are lumped up into classically trained.
Jen, I am not saying you are wrong…AT ALL. I am just giving my perspective because I rarely play Classical style music at all anymore. I am only just giving a perspective of I see most non-classical musicians view that statement.
Phineas Henshaw
ASI/EE ?
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From: Jen CluffSent: Thursday, August 3, 2023 11:35 AM To: Flutenet groupSubject: [Flutenet] Rock&Roll pianist ? Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background: There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member. Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically." It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves. Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me. ? ?
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Dear Flutelovers, And just as a quick story for background:
There's a famous rock band and their keyboard player is a neighbour of mine; tours with the band for 8 months a year; very successful for a thirty year career rock-band member.
Anyway I overheard another neighbour telling everyone that the rock fellow was "classically trained". I said: "Classical training does not consist of taking a few piano lessons at Mrs. Smith's house down the street when you're 10 years old; it's a lifetime of training and taking exams to prove you can convincingly play classical music in the STYLE of classical music; historically."
It just kills me how people make up factoids that are not true and just convince eachother of it when NONE of them is in the field of training themselves.
Morning rant complete, as that is how it started for me.
Best, Jen
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