FlaxSeedOil2@groups.io

Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Catherine Coy

#20977

Having said that, let me say that I agree with you that the standard of science is to look at humans from a bio-chemical perspective with all its complexities (and often getting lost in them), ignoring the electrical side of it where it becomes clear how much we are creatures of nature and the sun. That is where Dr.Budwig was (and still is) way ahead of most other scientists. 

Not wanting to get too far off the track here but, Wilhelm, you've said a mouthful with this point.  Dr. Budwig must have felt like she was explaining blue to a blind man when she introduced these concepts.  They're clearly akin to quantum physics and all that.  Very difficult for the average person to get his head around.  

I have a friend who has a deep interest in Near Death Experience (NDE) and is well read on the topic.  All NDE narratives, without exception, crossing culture, religious belief, gender and age, talk about "light."  Many quantum physicists study NDEs relentlessly and a common denominator is "the light" that accompanies all NDEs.

Again, not wanting to digress too much; just pointing out that light (presuming sunlight or some equivalent) is foundational to our existence.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wilhelm Hansen 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

  Hi Rick, 

  There likely are newcomers who view our testimonials with some skepticism. I think however, that most will take great comfort and encouragement from them. I have not seen thousands of testimonials as you have, but I have seen some which were connected with selling a product that I found misleading and not trustworthy. You can usually spot the weasel words and other clues by careful reading. Our testimonials are not of that kind and we should try not undermines their value by generalization. Keep in mind that newcomers are watching our discussions on this point as well as on any other. We allow no commercialism in this group, so the aspect of profiting from unfortunate sufferers is almost totally eliminated and our testimonials are devoid of profit motive. 

  Some time ago a woman (a newcomer) who was trying to make up her mind as to whether to go for the Budwig Protocol or one of the other methods she had investigated, wrote me privately asking why she should believe what she was reading in this group. I answered: You get honest feedback in this group because nobody here is looking to profit from your illness by trying to sell you something. She wrote back saying that this is what she needed to hear. She was now convinced to go with the Budwig method. This supports what Ulla is saying that "a commercially based healing testimonial in my eyes is worlds apart from a freely given "private" testimonial where no one profits financially". 

  Your pointing to what Dr.Budwig says and how her protocol works is of great value. Please continue to do it. I always enjoy your contributions, but to the newcomers talking of photons, biophotons and our electrical existence can be confusing while our testimonials and details on the dietary aspect of it more likely speak directly to their immediate concerns. Having said that, let me say that I agree with you that the standard of science is to look at humans from a bio-chemical perspective with all its complexities (and often getting lost in them), ignoring the electrical side of it where it becomes clear how much we are creatures of nature and the sun. That is where Dr.Budwig was (and still is) way ahead of most other scientists. 

  Wilhelm 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: rickmuenzer 
    To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
    Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:15 PM
    Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

    Sorry Wilhelm

    I did not mean to be negative - only trying to relate testimonials
    from the eyes of a newcommer after viewing the thousands of
    testimonials on the internet.  After seeing false promises of
    commercial testimonials it tends to make victims jaded. Instead of
    believing what anyone says, I try to point to what Budwig presents and
    find correlating information to prove to themselves how & why Budwig's
    protocol works.

    Also from the Budwig perspective the Milliken / Myelin Project is just
    like the 'big pharma' is racing down a dead end street. The standard
    of science is to look at humans as chemical or molecular beings and
    completely ignore our electrical and light (biophoton) existance.

    Rick 

  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 

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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Wilhelm Hansen

#20976

Hi Rick, 

There likely are newcomers who view our testimonials with some skepticism. I think however, that most will take great comfort and encouragement from them. I have not seen thousands of testimonials as you have, but I have seen some which were connected with selling a product that I found misleading and not trustworthy. You can usually spot the weasel words and other clues by careful reading. Our testimonials are not of that kind and we should try not undermines their value by generalization. Keep in mind that newcomers are watching our discussions on this point as well as on any other. We allow no commercialism in this group, so the aspect of profiting from unfortunate sufferers is almost totally eliminated and our testimonials are devoid of profit motive. 

Some time ago a woman (a newcomer) who was trying to make up her mind as to whether to go for the Budwig Protocol or one of the other methods she had investigated, wrote me privately asking why she should believe what she was reading in this group. I answered: You get honest feedback in this group because nobody here is looking to profit from your illness by trying to sell you something. She wrote back saying that this is what she needed to hear. She was now convinced to go with the Budwig method. This supports what Ulla is saying that "a commercially based healing testimonial in my eyes is worlds apart from a freely given "private" testimonial where no one profits financially". 

Your pointing to what Dr.Budwig says and how her protocol works is of great value. Please continue to do it. I always enjoy your contributions, but to the newcomers talking of photons, biophotons and our electrical existence can be confusing while our testimonials and details on the dietary aspect of it more likely speak directly to their immediate concerns. Having said that, let me say that I agree with you that the standard of science is to look at humans from a bio-chemical perspective with all its complexities (and often getting lost in them), ignoring the electrical side of it where it becomes clear how much we are creatures of nature and the sun. That is where Dr.Budwig was (and still is) way ahead of most other scientists. 

Wilhelm

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rickmuenzer 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:15 PM
  Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

  Sorry Wilhelm

  I did not mean to be negative - only trying to relate testimonials
  from the eyes of a newcommer after viewing the thousands of
  testimonials on the internet.  After seeing false promises of
  commercial testimonials it tends to make victims jaded. Instead of
  believing what anyone says, I try to point to what Budwig presents and
  find correlating information to prove to themselves how & why Budwig's
  protocol works.

  Also from the Budwig perspective the Milliken / Myelin Project is just
  like the 'big pharma' is racing down a dead end street. The standard
  of science is to look at humans as chemical or molecular beings and
  completely ignore our electrical and light (biophoton) existance.

  Rick

response to critics re: vegetarian diet

#20975

I am a vegetarian and appreciate the Budwig protocol very much.  
Frequently I am asked by a carnavore, "But where do you get your 
protein if you do not eat beef?"  
And I respond, "Where did the cow get the protein she laid up in 
her muscles?  Her diet was totally vegetarian."

That  usually ends the discussion.
Charley  laTuna

Step right up! Exchange your arthritis for a heart attack.

Catherine Coy

#20974

Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Catherine Coy

#20973

4th, with the help of the devoted people and Internet,
any good idea, if it is really good, will prevail.
Trust people's judgement. I don't believe big Pharma
can dominate forever. 

We shall see, yang, we shall see.

Please read this entire essay and then tell me what you think.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: yang xu 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database


  I am relatively new to the group, but I'd like to add
  a few words on the topic. 

  1st, I believe it's a great great intention and
  effort. 

  2nd, there are hundreds of therapies, conventional and
  alternative. Every cure method has their testimonies.
  I am sure conventional treatments have more
  testimornies than alternative. It doesn't mean it's
  better, of course. Cure rate has to be part of
  document, along with testimony, to be convincing. I
  know there are some numbers out there. However, to be
  honest, when I see 90%+ cure rate, I just don't
  believe it myself and think it is a lie one way or
  another(I really wish I am wrong here!). 10%~20% cure
  rate is worth a try for any terminal patients.
  Remember 2nd line chemo is just like that, and
  patients are willing to try with all the suffers. We
  should not make the number. We have to say clearly
  under what condition and criteria, the number is
  achieved. Let readers be the judge themself. 

  3rd, detailed verifiable testimony is more convincing
  than non-verifiable. So contact info should be part of
  testimony, whenever possible. 

  4th, with the help of the devoted people and Internet,
  any good idea, if it is really good, will prevail.
  Trust people's judgement. I don't believe big Pharma
  can dominate forever. 

  -yang









  --- Catherine Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

  > But I am sure that nothing we do would be acceptable
  > to the powers that be. 
  > 
  > Ain't it the truth, Wilhelm...ain't it the truth.
  > 
  > My purpose for posting Milken's site, etc. was to
  > point out that perhaps something can be done to
  > bridge the gap.  The Drudge Report is a phenomenal
  > example of such a bridging, albeit in the arena of
  > news.
  > 
  > And the Myelin Project came about from the efforts
  > of one woman--a homemaker and mother--to find a cure
  > for her son.  What could be more inspiring than that
  > to make us think we could make a difference here,
  > too?
  > 
  > I'll read your post again, Wilhelm, when I have more
  > time to see what I think about Roger's idea to
  > categorize.  I'm in a bit of a rush now and haven't
  > even perused the complete files of this board to
  > know what I'm talking about.  All I know is, someone
  > I love is very sick and time's a-wasting.
  > 
  > Thanks, as always, for the stimulating conversation.
  > 
  > Catherine
  >   
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Wilhelm Hansen 
  >   To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  >   Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:24 PM
  >   Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes
  > worldwide database
  > 
  > 
  >   Catherine, 
  > 
  >   Rick supported your position that testimonials
  > have no teeth. Since you would not see your own
  > position as negative, you obviously would not see
  > Rick's agreement with it as negative either - lol. 
  > 
  >   I was working on an answer to your post where you
  > made that statement but in light of this post, I
  > will drop it and deal with it here and now. To some
  > extent I agree with both of you, but only to a some
  > extent. It would be nice if our testimonials would
  > be more uniform, always with the writers name and
  > contact info, and conform to more scientifically
  > acceptable rules. But I am sure that nothing we do
  > would be acceptable to the powers that be. Never
  > mind what you and Rick or any of us think about
  > them. For a break-through we would have to be
  > accepted by "them'. Dr.Budwig with all her records,
  > superior knowledge and supporters in academic
  > circles and in the general population did not make
  > it, so why do you think we would make it? 
  > 
  >   We have made strides to have a better testimonial
  > section. Not that I thought ours was no good, but
  > one of our members, Roger Leger, wanted an
  > additional, more detailed section. So we worked on
  > it and when it was set up Roger posted the first
  > report on it and we invited others to do the same.
  > Look in our files under "7 - FSO2 Files - Case
  > Histories". There were NO takers and the idea came
  > to a stand still. Roger left the group and
  > eventually, I am sad to say, passed away.  
  > 
  >   I called Rick's position negative because he has
  > been a member of our "grassroots movement" for a
  > long time and I did not expect him to take the
  > position that testimonials have no teeth since he
  > knows the power of the Budwig Protocol and misses no
  > opportunity to give his supportive input. Ok, he may
  > not have meant our testimonials... I hope not. 
  > 
  >   I see testimonials as a powerful means of
  > communication and of making a statement. How much
  > more convincing can you be than to say "this should
  > help you because it helped me in a similar
  > situation." That may not compete very well with TV
  > ads and what the doctor says, but if they don't have
  > an acceptable answer to your problem, or if they
  > drop you in the end by saying "that is all we can do
  > for you, go home and get your affairs in order", a
  > testimonial is a powerful thing. 
  > 
  >   Promises by the pharma/medical people of a
  > signifcant cancer break-through that should be
  > available soon, keep us in a state of hope, awe, and
  > anticipation. It works again and again. Just the
  > name of the drug and the type of cancer they target
  > changes. The desire for a pill that will solve our
  > problem - a silver bullet so to speak - keeps us
  > supporting and believing in this kind of system.
  > Very few people see it as the house of cards that it
  > is. 
  > 
  >   An organized effort to constructing a meaningful
  > data base to flush out the truth of the Budwig
  > Protocol for all to see, is not going to happen
  > anytime soon because... it cannot be patented, there
  > is not enough money in it and it threatens the
  > profitability of several industries.  
  > 
  >   Regarding your references to Milliken and the
  > Myelin Project, these are completely different
  > undertakings. No comparison with us at all. I have
  > not read about them in detail, but from a cursory
  > look I get the impression that there is an
  > involvement of business, staff, donations... We
  > operate completely different. We work with a free
  > Yahoo site with all its restrictions, no staff, no
  > money, no commercialism... We should not be expected
  > to model ourselves after them.  
  > 
  >   We should be glad for what we have. That includes
  > the very important testimonials. It represents a lot
  > of work. So far as I know, we are the only group
  > that fully concentrates on Dr.Budwig's Oil-Protein
  > Diet. We try to anyway. Let's make the most of it
  > because that is all we are going to have for a long
  > time... 
  > 
  >   Wilhelm 
  > 
  > 
  >     ----- Original Message ----- 
  >     From: Catherine Coy 
  >     To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  >     Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:15 AM
  >     Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes
  > worldwide database
  > 
  > 
  >     Wilhelm, I didn't perceive Rick's comments
  > regarding testimonials as negative.  I "heard" some
  > level of exasperation (that we all experience) that
  > such a stunningly important discovery as Dr.
  > Budwig's is treated like a red-headed stepchild in
  > the medical world.  Why is this?  One must be very
  > cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil ones"
  > (medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it
  > known.  Good cannot be thwarted in the end.  It
  > takes perseverance, to be sure, to compile data, but
  > it simply must be compiled--clean, detailed,
  > uncorrupted data.
  > 
  >     If you want to be inspired by another oil-based
  > story, this one stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Dr.
  > Budwig's.
  > 
  >     
  > 
  >     If you take the time to read all the web pages,
  > you'll see the same issues of complexity all earnest
  > researchers confront in making sense of our physical
  > world.  The "Tower of Babel" story from the Bible
  > isn't simply an allegory, in my opinion, but factual
  > reality.  From the site:
  > 
  >     "Behind the Myelin Project is a multinational
  > gathering of families struck by one demyelinating
  > disease or another. Refusing to accept the
  > conventional view that science cannot be hurried,
  > they resolved to advance the moment when myelin
  > could be restored. They have done this by creating a
  > framework in which researchers can cooperate
  > effectively, by giving scientists adequate, prompt
  > financing and by continuously interacting with them.
  >     To counter researchers' endemic conservative
  > stance, we at The Myelin Project constantly remind
  > them of two aphorisms: "fortune favors the brave,"
  > and "you never know until you try."" 
  > 
  >   [Non-text portions of this message have been
  > removed]
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >   Note:
  >   The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are
  > purely educational and are not intended to diagnose
  > or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor
  > about the diagnosis and treatment of health
  > problems. 
  > 
  > 
  >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
  >               ADVERTISEMENT
  >              
  >        
  >        
  > 
  > 
  >
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >   Yahoo! Groups Links
  > 
  >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
  > 
  === message truncated ===



              
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Budwig Database and weight of Testimonials

#20979

Hi List,
In truth there is too much money at stake for the authoritative opinion 
makers and regulators to ever be convoinced of the Budwig nutritional based 
non=proprietary therapy. But that does not mean that by accumulating "repeated 
anecdotal" testimonials of REAL PEOPLE who we have followed for years on this list 
serve can have a very powerful effect on enough individual decisions of REAL 
PATIENTS to EVENTUALLY undermine the cancer industry monopoly on informational 
credibility aloowed to reach prospective patients. It's terribly small at this 
stage, but has a tremendous potential. So much so that the FDA has secured a 
special appropriation that used to be Ten Million,know it must be much more to 
monitor the internet and regulate on line pharmacies. Fortunately most of 
their effort concentrates on websites that are in existence not list serves-we are 
under the radar-SO FAR. Dr.Burzynski was forced to take down his truthful 
material that merely gave the statistical results of his Clinical Trials with 
different cancers and the Testimony of well recognizred highly credentialed  
medical doctors who testified at his trials as to the significance and reliability 
and accuracy of the data shown in his trials. Too many people who know how to 
do simple arithmetic could see through the truth that his antineoplastons are 
far more effective than all the other FDA approved drugs for cancer. If we 
get to have an even bigger impact they will find a way to close us down, in the 
meantime keep doing what you are doing it is fantastic.
    Arnold

Re: Digest Number 1373

[email protected]

#20971

thanks one illegal "m" in there, one should think i know how to spell it by now ;-)

actually this is due to over-confident "type-speeding", here is the purified link

www.healingcancernaturally.com/history.html

you wrote:

Show quoted text

LINK not working...  check the spelling.

Re: No Meat?

Barb

#20970

We are supposed to get all our protein from cc
and veggies??
Thanks,
Barb
   From: "Rhoda Freed" <RHODAF@...>
Subject: Wayne - hunger

Wayne, 
I agree it is probably the fats. If I am correct,

Dr. Budwig did not recommend any meat, peanuts or

eggs. I got the impression that Dr. Budwig did 
not use coconut oil unless it was mixed with flax

seed oil. I might be wrong. 

=====
"It's a fact of life that people find it much 
easier to believe a lie they've heard a thousand times 
that a fact they've never heard before."  Daniel P. Reid

(The reason whoever raises the most money can win an election.)

_______________________________
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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

yang xu

#20972

I am relatively new to the group, but I'd like to add
a few words on the topic. 

1st, I believe it's a great great intention and
effort. 

2nd, there are hundreds of therapies, conventional and
alternative. Every cure method has their testimonies.
I am sure conventional treatments have more
testimornies than alternative. It doesn't mean it's
better, of course. Cure rate has to be part of
document, along with testimony, to be convincing. I
know there are some numbers out there. However, to be
honest, when I see 90%+ cure rate, I just don't
believe it myself and think it is a lie one way or
another(I really wish I am wrong here!). 10%~20% cure
rate is worth a try for any terminal patients.
Remember 2nd line chemo is just like that, and
patients are willing to try with all the suffers. We
should not make the number. We have to say clearly
under what condition and criteria, the number is
achieved. Let readers be the judge themself. 

3rd, detailed verifiable testimony is more convincing
than non-verifiable. So contact info should be part of
testimony, whenever possible. 

4th, with the help of the devoted people and Internet,
any good idea, if it is really good, will prevail.
Trust people's judgement. I don't believe big Pharma
can dominate forever. 

-yang









--- Catherine Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

But I am sure that nothing we do would be acceptable
to the powers that be. 

Ain't it the truth, Wilhelm...ain't it the truth.

My purpose for posting Milken's site, etc. was to
point out that perhaps something can be done to
bridge the gap.  The Drudge Report is a phenomenal
example of such a bridging, albeit in the arena of
news.

And the Myelin Project came about from the efforts
of one woman--a homemaker and mother--to find a cure
for her son.  What could be more inspiring than that
to make us think we could make a difference here,
too?

I'll read your post again, Wilhelm, when I have more
time to see what I think about Roger's idea to
categorize.  I'm in a bit of a rush now and haven't
even perused the complete files of this board to
know what I'm talking about.  All I know is, someone
I love is very sick and time's a-wasting.

Thanks, as always, for the stimulating conversation.

Catherine
  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wilhelm Hansen 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes
worldwide database


  Catherine, 

  Rick supported your position that testimonials
have no teeth. Since you would not see your own
position as negative, you obviously would not see
Rick's agreement with it as negative either - lol. 

  I was working on an answer to your post where you
made that statement but in light of this post, I
will drop it and deal with it here and now. To some
extent I agree with both of you, but only to a some
extent. It would be nice if our testimonials would
be more uniform, always with the writers name and
contact info, and conform to more scientifically
acceptable rules. But I am sure that nothing we do
would be acceptable to the powers that be. Never
mind what you and Rick or any of us think about
them. For a break-through we would have to be
accepted by "them'. Dr.Budwig with all her records,
superior knowledge and supporters in academic
circles and in the general population did not make
it, so why do you think we would make it? 

  We have made strides to have a better testimonial
section. Not that I thought ours was no good, but
one of our members, Roger Leger, wanted an
additional, more detailed section. So we worked on
it and when it was set up Roger posted the first
report on it and we invited others to do the same.
Look in our files under "7 - FSO2 Files - Case
Histories". There were NO takers and the idea came
to a stand still. Roger left the group and
eventually, I am sad to say, passed away.  

  I called Rick's position negative because he has
been a member of our "grassroots movement" for a
long time and I did not expect him to take the
position that testimonials have no teeth since he
knows the power of the Budwig Protocol and misses no
opportunity to give his supportive input. Ok, he may
not have meant our testimonials... I hope not. 

  I see testimonials as a powerful means of
communication and of making a statement. How much
more convincing can you be than to say "this should
help you because it helped me in a similar
situation." That may not compete very well with TV
ads and what the doctor says, but if they don't have
an acceptable answer to your problem, or if they
drop you in the end by saying "that is all we can do
for you, go home and get your affairs in order", a
testimonial is a powerful thing. 

  Promises by the pharma/medical people of a
signifcant cancer break-through that should be
available soon, keep us in a state of hope, awe, and
anticipation. It works again and again. Just the
name of the drug and the type of cancer they target
changes. The desire for a pill that will solve our
problem - a silver bullet so to speak - keeps us
supporting and believing in this kind of system.
Very few people see it as the house of cards that it
is. 

  An organized effort to constructing a meaningful
data base to flush out the truth of the Budwig
Protocol for all to see, is not going to happen
anytime soon because... it cannot be patented, there
is not enough money in it and it threatens the
profitability of several industries.  

  Regarding your references to Milliken and the
Myelin Project, these are completely different
undertakings. No comparison with us at all. I have
not read about them in detail, but from a cursory
look I get the impression that there is an
involvement of business, staff, donations... We
operate completely different. We work with a free
Yahoo site with all its restrictions, no staff, no
money, no commercialism... We should not be expected
to model ourselves after them.  

  We should be glad for what we have. That includes
the very important testimonials. It represents a lot
of work. So far as I know, we are the only group
that fully concentrates on Dr.Budwig's Oil-Protein
Diet. We try to anyway. Let's make the most of it
because that is all we are going to have for a long
time... 

  Wilhelm 


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Catherine Coy 
    To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
    Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:15 AM
    Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes
worldwide database


    Wilhelm, I didn't perceive Rick's comments
regarding testimonials as negative.  I "heard" some
level of exasperation (that we all experience) that
such a stunningly important discovery as Dr.
Budwig's is treated like a red-headed stepchild in
the medical world.  Why is this?  One must be very
cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil ones"
(medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it
known.  Good cannot be thwarted in the end.  It
takes perseverance, to be sure, to compile data, but
it simply must be compiled--clean, detailed,
uncorrupted data.

    If you want to be inspired by another oil-based
story, this one stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Dr.
Budwig's.

    

    If you take the time to read all the web pages,
you'll see the same issues of complexity all earnest
researchers confront in making sense of our physical
world.  The "Tower of Babel" story from the Bible
isn't simply an allegory, in my opinion, but factual
reality.  From the site:

    "Behind the Myelin Project is a multinational
gathering of families struck by one demyelinating
disease or another. Refusing to accept the
conventional view that science cannot be hurried,
they resolved to advance the moment when myelin
could be restored. They have done this by creating a
framework in which researchers can cooperate
effectively, by giving scientists adequate, prompt
financing and by continuously interacting with them.
    To counter researchers' endemic conservative
stance, we at The Myelin Project constantly remind
them of two aphorisms: "fortune favors the brave,"
and "you never know until you try."" 

  [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]



  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are
purely educational and are not intended to diagnose
or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor
about the diagnosis and treatment of health
problems. 


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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

[email protected]

#20968

you wrote:
a stunningly important discovery as Dr. Budwig's is treated like a red-headed stepchild in the medical world.  Why is this?  One must be very cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil ones" (medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it known.pls let me disagree here...

i don't think my friends nor those who may criticize me would ever think of including "cynicism" in the traits they perceive in me...

yet as i learned more and more about how "medicine" works, i did indeed see more and more evidence of the fact that anything that threatens the rule and profits of "certain parties" tends to be (sometimes violently) opposed, hushed up, silenced, ridiculed, suppressed...

in fact, you have been quoting from a book review something which confirms the notion that "it ain't easy" (to say the least) to go against conventional medicine...
pioneering geniuses, eccentrics, and free thinkers who moved beyond the conventions of their day at great personal risk-often with tragic results-to push forward the boundaries of modern medicine.I suggest you read for instance the Medical History page at www.healingcancernmaturally.com/history.html (and continue to read up) on the many discoverers quoted there and what was done to them and their discoveries in the field of healing cancer using other approaches than those (relatively ineffective ones) suggested and "pushed" by profitable mainstream... well-known examples in Germany are Dr. Issels, Dr. Hamer and Dr. Budwig who were legally persecuted and harrassed (sometimes I think for decades) by mainstream medicine and other "interested parties", with thankfully at least Budwig winning all her lawsuits...

seeing these things for what they are isn't cynicism imo but acknowledging a sad "fact of life"...

thank you for offering your help as an archivist... personally I think the work done here, starting with Cliff's initiative and untiring efforts and continuing with Wilhelm's great knowledge and equally untiring dedication, is highly admirable and deserves much gratitude...

to conclude, I would like to ask those who "demand" more and better proof, if they are ready to contribute their own time to furnishing, archiving and sorting the kind of proof they would like to see - instead of only "demanding" it?

a btw to Rick :-) a commercially based healing testimonial in my eyes is worlds apart from a freely given "private" testimonial where noone profits financially (but the flaxoil industry ;-)

Kind regards,
Ulla

Re: Digest Number 1373

#20969

In a message dated 8/20/04 7:31:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
FlaxSeedOil2@... writes:

I suggest you read for instance the Medical History page at 
www.healingcancernmaturally.com/history.html (and continue to read up) on 
the many discoverers quoted there and what was done to them and their 
discoveries in the field of healing cancer using other approaches than 
those (relatively ineffective ones) suggested and "pushed" by profitable 
mainstream... well-known examples in Germany are Dr. Issels, Dr. Hamer and 
Dr. Budwig who were legally persecuted and harrassed (sometimes I think for 
decades) by mainstream medicine and other "interested parties", with 
thankfully at least Budwig winning all her lawsuits...
.
.>>> Ulla

LINK not working...  check the spelling.

Others, goto

Re: Keeping and analyzing records.

#20967

I'm with you Cliff.  It is unconscionable and beyond arrogant that most doctor's think that they have the answer with only chemo and radiation.  Especially when they themselves have witnessed the poor results.
My question to people is this;  those that have cancer and the doctor recommends chemo or radiation, do you ask the doctor for names, phone numbers and documentation of those that have had positive results?  I would venture to say no.  Most people go blindly by what the doctor tells them to do, even if the doctor tells them there is very little hope.  But not only this, I know of very few doctor's that have ever given out another patient's phone number that could testify to their conventional treatment.  Maybe it is against the law to give out another patient's phone number, but do you think it could be that there really aren't many success stories?
One really can't even rely on any success rate figures resulting from chemo or radiation anyway, because we know that doctor's do not document food such as FO/CC as a treatment.  So, if a patient is doing well with the Budwig protocol, say after they have done chemo, the doctor will document that it is the chemo that has kept them well.
So how far can you believe any of the medical establishment's recorded statistics?
Cliff, I don't blame you for being bitter.  It is purely chosen ignorance of the medical establishment, all backed by big money.  In such a high tech, progressive nation we live in, it's absolutely shameful.
 
<><>Laurie<><>

Cliff Beckwith <cliffb865@...> wrote:
Howevaer, the doctors persuaded her that she could not get well this 
way and got her away from it and with further chemo killed her.

Why could the doctor not see what was happening?  Why did he not care?  
Why was there no recognition that something with which he was 
unfamiliar was doing the job?  Tell me again why I should trust this 
kind of ignorance, inability to make valid observations and unconcern 
on the part of some doctors when it comes to my health.

Tell me why I should trust my life to these Oncologists rather than 
trust the word of what has happened to people whether or not all the 
details are present as to every thing that has happened and been fully 
analyzed and verified.

So far I have known of at least 6 that died because of ignorance and 
obstinate refusal to look at anything that had not been FDA approved.

If I sound a little bitter at the establishment, believe me I am.

Cliff


Note:
The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 


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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Catherine Coy

#20966

Wilhelm, if you'll write to me privately and tell me what I must do, I would enjoy taking over some of Roger's duties as archivest.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wilhelm Hansen 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

  Catherine, 

  Rick supported your position that testimonials have no teeth. Since you would not see your own position as negative, you obviously would not see Rick's agreement with it as negative either - lol. 

  I was working on an answer to your post where you made that statement but in light of this post, I will drop it and deal with it here and now. To some extent I agree with both of you, but only to a some extent. It would be nice if our testimonials would be more uniform, always with the writers name and contact info, and conform to more scientifically acceptable rules. But I am sure that nothing we do would be acceptable to the powers that be. Never mind what you and Rick or any of us think about them. For a break-through we would have to be accepted by "them'. Dr.Budwig with all her records, superior knowledge and supporters in academic circles and in the general population did not make it, so why do you think we would make it? 

  We have made strides to have a better testimonial section. Not that I thought ours was no good, but one of our members, Roger Leger, wanted an additional, more detailed section. So we worked on it and when it was set up Roger posted the first report on it and we invited others to do the same. Look in our files under "7 - FSO2 Files - Case Histories". There were NO takers and the idea came to a stand still. Roger left the group and eventually, I am sad to say, passed away.  

  I called Rick's position negative because he has been a member of our "grassroots movement" for a long time and I did not expect him to take the position that testimonials have no teeth since he knows the power of the Budwig Protocol and misses no opportunity to give his supportive input. Ok, he may not have meant our testimonials... I hope not. 

  I see testimonials as a powerful means of communication and of making a statement. How much more convincing can you be than to say "this should help you because it helped me in a similar situation." That may not compete very well with TV ads and what the doctor says, but if they don't have an acceptable answer to your problem, or if they drop you in the end by saying "that is all we can do for you, go home and get your affairs in order", a testimonial is a powerful thing. 

  Promises by the pharma/medical people of a signifcant cancer break-through that should be available soon, keep us in a state of hope, awe, and anticipation. It works again and again. Just the name of the drug and the type of cancer they target changes. The desire for a pill that will solve our problem - a silver bullet so to speak - keeps us supporting and believing in this kind of system. Very few people see it as the house of cards that it is. 

  An organized effort to constructing a meaningful data base to flush out the truth of the Budwig Protocol for all to see, is not going to happen anytime soon because... it cannot be patented, there is not enough money in it and it threatens the profitability of several industries.  

  Regarding your references to Milliken and the Myelin Project, these are completely different undertakings. No comparison with us at all. I have not read about them in detail, but from a cursory look I get the impression that there is an involvement of business, staff, donations... We operate completely different. We work with a free Yahoo site with all its restrictions, no staff, no money, no commercialism... We should not be expected to model ourselves after them.  

  We should be glad for what we have. That includes the very important testimonials. It represents a lot of work. So far as I know, we are the only group that fully concentrates on Dr.Budwig's Oil-Protein Diet. We try to anyway. Let's make the most of it because that is all we are going to have for a long time... 

  Wilhelm 

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Catherine Coy 
    To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
    Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:15 AM
    Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

    Wilhelm, I didn't perceive Rick's comments regarding testimonials as negative.  I "heard" some level of exasperation (that we all experience) that such a stunningly important discovery as Dr. Budwig's is treated like a red-headed stepchild in the medical world.  Why is this?  One must be very cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil ones" (medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it known.  Good cannot be thwarted in the end.  It takes perseverance, to be sure, to compile data, but it simply must be compiled--clean, detailed, uncorrupted data.

    If you want to be inspired by another oil-based story, this one stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Dr. Budwig's.

    If you take the time to read all the web pages, you'll see the same issues of complexity all earnest researchers confront in making sense of our physical world.  The "Tower of Babel" story from the Bible isn't simply an allegory, in my opinion, but factual reality.  From the site:

    "Behind the Myelin Project is a multinational gathering of families struck by one demyelinating disease or another. Refusing to accept the conventional view that science cannot be hurried, they resolved to advance the moment when myelin could be restored. They have done this by creating a framework in which researchers can cooperate effectively, by giving scientists adequate, prompt financing and by continuously interacting with them.
    To counter researchers' endemic conservative stance, we at The Myelin Project constantly remind them of two aphorisms: "fortune favors the brave," and "you never know until you try."" 

  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:

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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Catherine Coy

#20965

Rick said:  The standard of science is to look at humans as chemical or molecular beings and completely ignore our electrical and light (biophoton) existance.

But, Rick, Michaela Odone is immortalized for thinking outside the box!  From the website:  To counter researchers' endemic conservative stance, we at The Myelin Project constantly remind them of two aphorisms: "fortune favors the brave," and "you never know until you try." 

The fact that the cure came from a blend of rapeseed/olive oil is simply too fantastic!  

Big Pharma is in Big Trouble.   Scandals are brewing.  I predict, within my lifetime, a complete breakdown in the way the medical and pharmaceutical industries interact.  It's only a matter of time.

If alt can get some of the chemical/molecular thinkers over to the alt side, rather than trying to storm the gates of Cancer, Inc., we might see some real progress in the alleged "War on Cancer."

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rickmuenzer 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:15 PM
  Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database


  Sorry Wilhelm

  I did not mean to be negative - only trying to relate testimonials
  from the eyes of a newcommer after viewing the thousands of
  testimonials on the internet.  After seeing false promises of
  commercial testimonials it tends to make victims jaded. Instead of
  believing what anyone says, I try to point to what Budwig presents and
  find correlating information to prove to themselves how & why Budwig's
  protocol works.

  Also from the Budwig perspective the Milliken / Myelin Project is just
  like the 'big pharma' is racing down a dead end street. The standard
  of science is to look at humans as chemical or molecular beings and
  completely ignore our electrical and light (biophoton) existance.

  Rick

  --- In FlaxSeedOil2@..., "Wilhelm Hansen" <wilhelmh@t...>
  wrote:
  > Catherine, 
  > 
  > Rick supported your position that testimonials have no teeth. Since
  you would not see your own position as negative, you obviously would
  not see Rick's agreement with it as negative either - lol. 
  > 
  > I was working on an answer to your post where you made that
  statement but in light of this post, I will drop it and deal with it
  here and now. To some extent I agree with both of you, but only to a
  some extent. It would be nice if our testimonials would be more
  uniform, always with the writers name and contact info, and conform to
  more scientifically acceptable rules. But I am sure that nothing we do
  would be acceptable to the powers that be. Never mind what you and
  Rick or any of us think about them. For a break-through we would have
  to be accepted by "them'. Dr.Budwig with all her records, superior
  knowledge and supporters in academic circles and in the general
  population did not make it, so why do you think we would make it? 
  > 
  > We have made strides to have a better testimonial section. Not that
  I thought ours was no good, but one of our members, Roger Leger,
  wanted an additional, more detailed section. So we worked on it and
  when it was set up Roger posted the first report on it and we invited
  others to do the same. Look in our files under "7 - FSO2 Files - Case
  Histories". There were NO takers and the idea came to a stand still.
  Roger left the group and eventually, I am sad to say, passed away.  
  > 
  > I called Rick's position negative because he has been a member of
  our "grassroots movement" for a long time and I did not expect him to
  take the position that testimonials have no teeth since he knows the
  power of the Budwig Protocol and misses no opportunity to give his
  supportive input. Ok, he may not have meant our testimonials... I hope
  not. 
  > 
  > I see testimonials as a powerful means of communication and of
  making a statement. How much more convincing can you be than to say
  "this should help you because it helped me in a similar situation."
  That may not compete very well with TV ads and what the doctor says,
  but if they don't have an acceptable answer to your problem, or if
  they drop you in the end by saying "that is all we can do for you, go
  home and get your affairs in order", a testimonial is a powerful thing. 
  > 
  > Promises by the pharma/medical people of a signifcant cancer
  break-through that should be available soon, keep us in a state of
  hope, awe, and anticipation. It works again and again. Just the name
  of the drug and the type of cancer they target changes. The desire for
  a pill that will solve our problem - a silver bullet so to speak -
  keeps us supporting and believing in this kind of system. Very few
  people see it as the house of cards that it is. 
  > 
  > An organized effort to constructing a meaningful data base to flush
  out the truth of the Budwig Protocol for all to see, is not going to
  happen anytime soon because... it cannot be patented, there is not
  enough money in it and it threatens the profitability of several
  industries.  
  > 
  > Regarding your references to Milliken and the Myelin Project, these
  are completely different undertakings. No comparison with us at all. I
  have not read about them in detail, but from a cursory look I get the
  impression that there is an involvement of business, staff,
  donations... We operate completely different. We work with a free
  Yahoo site with all its restrictions, no staff, no money, no
  commercialism... We should not be expected to model ourselves after
  them.  
  > 
  > We should be glad for what we have. That includes the very important
  testimonials. It represents a lot of work. So far as I know, we are
  the only group that fully concentrates on Dr.Budwig's Oil-Protein
  Diet. We try to anyway. Let's make the most of it because that is all
  we are going to have for a long time... 
  > 
  > Wilhelm 
  > 
  > 
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Catherine Coy 
  >   To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  >   Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:15 AM
  >   Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database
  > 
  > 
  >   Wilhelm, I didn't perceive Rick's comments regarding testimonials
  as negative.  I "heard" some level of exasperation (that we all
  experience) that such a stunningly important discovery as Dr. Budwig's
  is treated like a red-headed stepchild in the medical world.  Why is
  this?  One must be very cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil
  ones" (medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it known.  Good
  cannot be thwarted in the end.  It takes perseverance, to be sure, to
  compile data, but it simply must be compiled--clean, detailed,
  uncorrupted data.
  > 
  >   If you want to be inspired by another oil-based story, this one
  stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Dr. Budwig's.
  > 
  >   
  > 
  >   If you take the time to read all the web pages, you'll see the
  same issues of complexity all earnest researchers confront in making
  sense of our physical world.  The "Tower of Babel" story from the
  Bible isn't simply an allegory, in my opinion, but factual reality. 
  From the site:
  > 
  >   "Behind the Myelin Project is a multinational gathering of
  families struck by one demyelinating disease or another. Refusing to
  accept the conventional view that science cannot be hurried, they
  resolved to advance the moment when myelin could be restored. They
  have done this by creating a framework in which researchers can
  cooperate effectively, by giving scientists adequate, prompt financing
  and by continuously interacting with them.
  >   To counter researchers' endemic conservative stance, we at The
  Myelin Project constantly remind them of two aphorisms: "fortune
  favors the brave," and "you never know until you try."" 
  > 
  > 



  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    
      
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    FlaxSeedOil2-unsubscribe@...
      
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Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

rickmuenzer

#20964

Sorry Wilhelm

I did not mean to be negative - only trying to relate testimonials
from the eyes of a newcommer after viewing the thousands of
testimonials on the internet.  After seeing false promises of
commercial testimonials it tends to make victims jaded. Instead of
believing what anyone says, I try to point to what Budwig presents and
find correlating information to prove to themselves how & why Budwig's
protocol works.

Also from the Budwig perspective the Milliken / Myelin Project is just
like the 'big pharma' is racing down a dead end street. The standard
of science is to look at humans as chemical or molecular beings and
completely ignore our electrical and light (biophoton) existance.

Rick

--- In FlaxSeedOil2@..., "Wilhelm Hansen" <wilhelmh@t...>
wrote:
Catherine, 

Rick supported your position that testimonials have no teeth. Sinceyou would not see your own position as negative, you obviously would
not see Rick's agreement with it as negative either - lol. 

I was working on an answer to your post where you made thatstatement but in light of this post, I will drop it and deal with it
here and now. To some extent I agree with both of you, but only to a
some extent. It would be nice if our testimonials would be more
uniform, always with the writers name and contact info, and conform to
more scientifically acceptable rules. But I am sure that nothing we do
would be acceptable to the powers that be. Never mind what you and
Rick or any of us think about them. For a break-through we would have
to be accepted by "them'. Dr.Budwig with all her records, superior
knowledge and supporters in academic circles and in the general
population did not make it, so why do you think we would make it? 

We have made strides to have a better testimonial section. Not thatI thought ours was no good, but one of our members, Roger Leger,
wanted an additional, more detailed section. So we worked on it and
when it was set up Roger posted the first report on it and we invited
others to do the same. Look in our files under "7 - FSO2 Files - Case
Histories". There were NO takers and the idea came to a stand still.
Roger left the group and eventually, I am sad to say, passed away.  

I called Rick's position negative because he has been a member ofour "grassroots movement" for a long time and I did not expect him to
take the position that testimonials have no teeth since he knows the
power of the Budwig Protocol and misses no opportunity to give his
supportive input. Ok, he may not have meant our testimonials... I hope
not. 

I see testimonials as a powerful means of communication and ofmaking a statement. How much more convincing can you be than to say
"this should help you because it helped me in a similar situation."
That may not compete very well with TV ads and what the doctor says,
but if they don't have an acceptable answer to your problem, or if
they drop you in the end by saying "that is all we can do for you, go
home and get your affairs in order", a testimonial is a powerful thing. 

Promises by the pharma/medical people of a signifcant cancerbreak-through that should be available soon, keep us in a state of
hope, awe, and anticipation. It works again and again. Just the name
of the drug and the type of cancer they target changes. The desire for
a pill that will solve our problem - a silver bullet so to speak -
keeps us supporting and believing in this kind of system. Very few
people see it as the house of cards that it is. 

An organized effort to constructing a meaningful data base to flushout the truth of the Budwig Protocol for all to see, is not going to
happen anytime soon because... it cannot be patented, there is not
enough money in it and it threatens the profitability of several
industries.  

Regarding your references to Milliken and the Myelin Project, theseare completely different undertakings. No comparison with us at all. I
have not read about them in detail, but from a cursory look I get the
impression that there is an involvement of business, staff,
donations... We operate completely different. We work with a free
Yahoo site with all its restrictions, no staff, no money, no
commercialism... We should not be expected to model ourselves after
them.  

We should be glad for what we have. That includes the very importanttestimonials. It represents a lot of work. So far as I know, we are
the only group that fully concentrates on Dr.Budwig's Oil-Protein
Diet. We try to anyway. Let's make the most of it because that is all
we are going to have for a long time... 

Wilhelm 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Catherine Coy 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:15 AM
  Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database


  Wilhelm, I didn't perceive Rick's comments regarding testimonialsas negative.  I "heard" some level of exasperation (that we all
experience) that such a stunningly important discovery as Dr. Budwig's
is treated like a red-headed stepchild in the medical world.  Why is
this?  One must be very cynical if he thinks it's because the "evil
ones" (medical industry, Big Pharma, etc.) don't want it known.  Good
cannot be thwarted in the end.  It takes perseverance, to be sure, to
compile data, but it simply must be compiled--clean, detailed,
uncorrupted data.

  If you want to be inspired by another oil-based story, this onestands shoulder-to-shoulder with Dr. Budwig's.

  

  If you take the time to read all the web pages, you'll see thesame issues of complexity all earnest researchers confront in making
sense of our physical world.  The "Tower of Babel" story from the
Bible isn't simply an allegory, in my opinion, but factual reality. 
From the site:

  "Behind the Myelin Project is a multinational gathering offamilies struck by one demyelinating disease or another. Refusing to
accept the conventional view that science cannot be hurried, they
resolved to advance the moment when myelin could be restored. They
have done this by creating a framework in which researchers can
cooperate effectively, by giving scientists adequate, prompt financing
and by continuously interacting with them.
  To counter researchers' endemic conservative stance, we at TheMyelin Project constantly remind them of two aphorisms: "fortune
favors the brave," and "you never know until you try."" 

Re: Keeping and analyzing records.

Catherine Coy

#20963

Cliff, of course you're right.  Here's an excerpt from Amazon.com about a book about medical miracles and how they came about.  It's illustrative to what you're talking about.

Mavericks, Miracles, and Medicine brings to life stories of the pioneering geniuses, eccentrics, and free thinkers who moved beyond the conventions of their day at great personal risk-often with tragic results-to push forward the boundaries of modern medicine. From Werner Forssmann, who was so confident in his theory that doctors could insert a catheter into a human heart for diagnostic purposes that he inserted one into his own heart, while watching on a live X-ray (and was basically thrown out of the profession, only to be awarded the Nobel Prize just before his death many years later), to Anton Von Leewenhoek, a draper and part-time janitor who discovered the existence of protozoa, bacteria, sperm, and blood cells; from Wilhelm Roentgen, who developed the X-ray machine in his basement with a single cathode ray and some cardboard, to Jean-Baptiste Denis, who gave the first-known blood transfusion (with sheep's blood) and was later charged with murder (on manufactured evidence). Mavericks, Miracles, and Medicine is populated with the heretics and visionaries who forever changed medical science, and is featured on the History Channel miniseries of the same name. 

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cliff Beckwith 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 7:07 PM
  Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Keeping and analyzing records.

  Hi,  

  I hope that the time will come when real research on FO/CC will be truly 
  undertaken, but until that time does come there appear to me to be but 
  two choices.

  One is to refuse to use it because it has not been thoroughly researched 
  and die, and the other is to believe what is known and have some hope 
  and a chance to live.

  In 1995 we had just gotten a new truck and took a trip to Dallas to see 
  a cousin.

  I took along about 10 tapes.  This was the second edition that we had 
  made at that time.

  On the way back we stopped at a welcome center in Alabama and while my 
  wife was in the restroom I was talking about this to two attendants and 
  left two tapes.

  One of the ladies had a friend who was in a coma with cancer.  I had 
  been home two nights when at 1:00 am I got a desperate phone call.  Her 
  friend had come out of the coma and she wanted to know where she could 
  get flax oil TONIGHT!!  I made some suggestions with no real idea and 
  she got it somewhere in Tuscaloosa.

  There was no great concern with research results.  Her friend got with 
  it immediately and was doing very well.  I was getting updates.  
  Howevaer, the doctors persuaded her that she could not get well this 
  way and got her away from it and with further chemo killed her.

  Why could the doctor not see what was happening?  Why did he not care?  
  Why was there no recognition that something with which he was 
  unfamiliar was doing the job?  Tell me again why I should trust this 
  kind of ignorance, inability to make valid observations and unconcern 
  on the part of some doctors when it comes to my health.

  Tell me why I should trust my life to these Oncologists rather than 
  trust the word of what has happened to people whether or not all the 
  details are present as to every thing that has happened and been fully 
  analyzed and verified.

  So far I have known of at least 6 that died because of ignorance and 
  obstinate refusal to look at anything that had not been FDA approved.

  If I sound a little bitter at the establishment, believe me I am.

  Cliff

  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 

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Keeping and analyzing records.

Cliff Beckwith

#20962

Hi,  

I hope that the time will come when real research on FO/CC will be truly 
undertaken, but until that time does come there appear to me to be but 
two choices.

One is to refuse to use it because it has not been thoroughly researched 
and die, and the other is to believe what is known and have some hope 
and a chance to live.

In 1995 we had just gotten a new truck and took a trip to Dallas to see 
a cousin.

I took along about 10 tapes.  This was the second edition that we had 
made at that time.

On the way back we stopped at a welcome center in Alabama and while my 
wife was in the restroom I was talking about this to two attendants and 
left two tapes.

One of the ladies had a friend who was in a coma with cancer.  I had 
been home two nights when at 1:00 am I got a desperate phone call.  Her 
friend had come out of the coma and she wanted to know where she could 
get flax oil TONIGHT!!  I made some suggestions with no real idea and 
she got it somewhere in Tuscaloosa.

There was no great concern with research results.  Her friend got with 
it immediately and was doing very well.  I was getting updates.  
Howevaer, the doctors persuaded her that she could not get well this 
way and got her away from it and with further chemo killed her.

Why could the doctor not see what was happening?  Why did he not care?  
Why was there no recognition that something with which he was 
unfamiliar was doing the job?  Tell me again why I should trust this 
kind of ignorance, inability to make valid observations and unconcern 
on the part of some doctors when it comes to my health.

Tell me why I should trust my life to these Oncologists rather than 
trust the word of what has happened to people whether or not all the 
details are present as to every thing that has happened and been fully 
analyzed and verified.

So far I have known of at least 6 that died because of ignorance and 
obstinate refusal to look at anything that had not been FDA approved.

If I sound a little bitter at the establishment, believe me I am.

Cliff

Re: This one is good news. For Harry

H&M Feld

#20961

Thanxs for clarification/explanation Wilhelm. Now thats a significant drop
indeed!! Congratulations.
Harry

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wilhelm Hansen" <wilhelmh@...>
To: <FlaxSeedOil2@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: This one is good news. For Harry

Flo and Harry,

First of all Flo, I am glad that your son's high cholesterol reading hasnormalized. I have seen it in myself too but less dramatically. I did not
have such high readings to begin with.

Next, I like to clarify the difference in the US and Canadian readings sothat the significance and your excitement can be better appreciated.

Canada uses the world standard of mmol/l (millimoles per liter)
The US, or some places in the US, use the traditional mg/dl (milligram perdeciliter)

Because this has to do with molecular weight, the conversion factordepends on the substance in question.

The conversion factor for cholesterol is 38.7
(for glucose 18, for triglycerides 89, for creatinin 88)

Here are your son's readings in both systems:
Was: 7.8 mmol/l or 302 mg/dl (US)
Now: 5.4 mmol/l or  209 mg/dl (US)

Wilhelm

  Hi Harry:
  In Canada they do the point system differently. My son's reading was
  7.8 and now it is 5.4 which is pretty close to normal which I think
  is anything under 5. Most of the time his reading was over 7 and
  sometimes over 8. Remember his colesterol has been this high for
  over twelve years. This is the first time he has been anywhere near
  normal. Even the doctor was shocked to see such a change.
  Flo

Note:
The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and arenot intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor
about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: This one is good news. For Harry

Wilhelm Hansen

#20960

Flo and Harry, 

First of all Flo, I am glad that your son's high cholesterol reading has normalized. I have seen it in myself too but less dramatically. I did not have such high readings to begin with. 

Next, I like to clarify the difference in the US and Canadian readings so that the significance and your excitement can be better appreciated. 

Canada uses the world standard of mmol/l (millimoles per liter) 
The US, or some places in the US, use the traditional mg/dl (milligram per deciliter) 

Because this has to do with molecular weight, the conversion factor depends on the substance in question.

The conversion factor for cholesterol is 38.7 
(for glucose 18, for triglycerides 89, for creatinin 88)  

Here are your son's readings in both systems: 
Was: 7.8 mmol/l or 302 mg/dl (US) 
Now: 5.4 mmol/l or  209 mg/dl (US) 

Wilhelm 


  Hi Harry:
  In Canada they do the point system differently. My son's reading was 
  7.8 and now it is 5.4 which is pretty close to normal which I think 
  is anything under 5. Most of the time his reading was over 7 and 
  sometimes over 8. Remember his colesterol has been this high for 
  over twelve years. This is the first time he has been anywhere near 
  normal. Even the doctor was shocked to see such a change.
  Flo

Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

Catherine Coy

#20956

Unfortunately, Michael, Duke isn't a "top university" in the sense that the rest of mainstream medicine thinks that those who come out of Duke spent too much time smoking the wacky weed while there.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wilhelm Hansen 
  To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

  > Verify, verify, verify. All prior test results; all doctor reports etc. 

  Goodness Michael, I get the impression that no amount of verification and documentation would satisfy you - lol 

  Wilhelm   

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Michael Dorfman 
    To: FlaxSeedOil2@... 
    Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:54 PM
    Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: Budwig successes worldwide database

    I agree with Catherine. There has to be extremely meticulous, comprehensive
    documentation.
    Verify, verify, verify. All prior test results; all doctor reports etc.
    Why hasn't some enterprising Ph D. student, or some entity like the Canadian
    Flax council done a field study and really try to nail some of these
    anecdotal studies down ?
    Especially since Flax and prostate cancer is now being researched at top
    universities (e.g. Duke)

  Note:
  The contents of the posts on FlaxSeedOil2 are purely educational and are not intended to diagnose or treat any illness. Always consult your doctor about the diagnosis and treatment of health problems. 

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              ADVERTISEMENT
             
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