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PropView Question
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Ted Sarah
Hi,
I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS |
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Ron Eberson
Ted
Give me your antenna and high from ground i can calculate your take off if you will Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ted Sarah [mailto:w8tts@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 16:39 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi, I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Tom Brouard
Hi Ron,
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I have the same questions that Ted has. I have a Windom TNT2X dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating the take off as well. Thank you Tom KB2VNB -----Original Message-----
From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:45 AM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Ted Give me your antenna and high from ground i can calculate your take off if you will Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ted Sarah [mailto:w8tts@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 16:39 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi, I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Ron Eberson
Give de freq where you use the dipool o.k.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Tom Brouard [mailto:stagehand@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 21:04 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi Ron, I have the same questions that Ted has. I have a Windom TNT2X dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating the take off as well. Thank you Tom KB2VNB -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:45 AM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Ted Give me your antenna and high from ground i can calculate your take off if you will Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ted Sarah [mailto:w8tts@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 16:39 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi, I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Tom Brouard
Ron
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Thanks for your reply. I am very lucky that I tune from 160 meters all the way to 6 meters and use them all, so pick your favorite. It is a great little antenna. Tom -----Original Message-----
From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:41 PM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Give de freq where you use the dipool o.k. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Tom Brouard [mailto:stagehand@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 21:04 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi Ron, I have the same questions that Ted has. I have a Windom TNT2X dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating the take off as well. Thank you Tom KB2VNB -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:45 AM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Ted Give me your antenna and high from ground i can calculate your take off if you will Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ted Sarah [mailto:w8tts@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 16:39 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi, I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Dave Bernstein
Avail % is the required circuit reliability, stated as a percentage
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representing the likelihood that signal quality will be acceptable. 10% is a good number for DXing, particularly for CW or PSK. 50% is a good number for ragchewing. 99% is a good number if you're using HF to call a taxi for your XYL when she's gone into labor. Most antennas radiate and receive at most angles, though there are lobes and nulls. For DXing purposes, we're more concerned with missing a potential path -- so its best to be optimistic with this number. 3 or 5 is a reasonable choice. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In dxlab@y..., Ted Sarah <w8tts@a...> wrote:
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Ron Eberson
Tom
You have for a dipool around 45 degrees take off angel. Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Tom Brouard [mailto:stagehand@...] Verzonden: woensdag 25 april 2001 2:36 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Ron Thanks for your reply. I am very lucky that I tune from 160 meters all the way to 6 meters and use them all, so pick your favorite. It is a great little antenna. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:41 PM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Give de freq where you use the dipool o.k. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Tom Brouard [mailto:stagehand@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 21:04 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi Ron, I have the same questions that Ted has. I have a Windom TNT2X dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating the take off as well. Thank you Tom KB2VNB -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:45 AM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] PropView Question Ted Give me your antenna and high from ground i can calculate your take off if you will Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ted Sarah [mailto:w8tts@...] Verzonden: dinsdag 24 april 2001 16:39 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] PropView Question Hi, I'm new to PropView and DXView and I have a couple of questions on PropView. First, under Conditions is Avail %. Can someone fill me in on what this is and where the information comes from. Second, under Transmitter is TakeOff. Is there a simple program to calculate this? I've looked at EZNEC and it's a little deeper than what I want to get into, but if it's the best way to go I'll figure it out. Thanks in advance. 73 - Ted - W8TTS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Dave Bernstein
When operated on 10m, a dipole at 45 feet is more than 3 wavelengths
off the ground. Shouldn't its takeoff angle be much less than 45 degrees? 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In dxlab@y..., "Ron Eberson" <zx@c...> wrote: Tomall the way to 6 meters and use them all, so pick your favorite. It is agreat little antenna.dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating thetake off as well.off if you will
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Ron Eberson
Dave 45 feet are 13.71 meters so 1.3 wavelengths of the ground 1 feet are
30,48 CM. or is that not correct?? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Dave Bernstein [mailto:dhb@...] Verzonden: woensdag 25 april 2001 9:05 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: [dxlab] Re: PropView Question When operated on 10m, a dipole at 45 feet is more than 3 wavelengths off the ground. Shouldn't its takeoff angle be much less than 45 degrees? 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In dxlab@y..., "Ron Eberson" <zx@c...> wrote: Tomall the way to 6 meters and use them all, so pick your favorite. It is agreat little antenna.dipole at about 45 feet. I would like to have the formula for calculating thetake off as well.off if you will
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
There has been a great deal of research done on this over the years and basically it's a parameter that's almost impossible for most of us to determine accurately. It depends on the type of antenna (vertical or horizontal polarization) the height of the antenna above ground, the conductivity of the ground under your antenna and the terrain. The only real way to determine it is to measure it, and how do you do that without a helicopter taking measurements at different altitudes? Some research done by ARRL and published in the ARRL antenna book suggests that the majority of DX comes in at an angle of about 6 degrees. That's not likely to be the maximum vertical lobe of your antenna on HF unless you have an extremely high (several wavelengths) tower. But, hopefully you have enough radiation at that angle to communicate. If you're getting good reports from DX, it's a pretty good bet that you do. Using 6 degrees as the angle I find PropView to be really helpful in determining statistically the best time and frequency for making contacts over a given DX path. Like weather predictions, it's not 100% accurate but in the absence of major solar flares and geomagnetic storms, it's right more often than wrong. Thus it's a very useful tool. ---- 73, Rich - W3ZJ |
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Ron Eberson
There is a standart line for that.
That is what we give and what we always use as a factory i have run for several years PA1ZX ZX-YAGI Ron -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Richard B Drake [mailto:rich@...] Verzonden: woensdag 25 april 2001 15:59 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] Re: PropView Question There has been a great deal of research done on this over the years and basically it's a parameter that's almost impossible for most of us to determine accurately. It depends on the type of antenna (vertical or horizontal polarization) the height of the antenna above ground, the conductivity of the ground under your antenna and the terrain. The only real way to determine it is to measure it, and how do you do that without a helicopter taking measurements at different altitudes? Some research done by ARRL and published in the ARRL antenna book suggests that the majority of DX comes in at an angle of about 6 degrees. That's not likely to be the maximum vertical lobe of your antenna on HF unless you have an extremely high (several wavelengths) tower. But, hopefully you have enough radiation at that angle to communicate. If you're getting good reports from DX, it's a pretty good bet that you do. Using 6 degrees as the angle I find PropView to be really helpful in determining statistically the best time and frequency for making contacts over a given DX path. Like weather predictions, it's not 100% accurate but in the absence of major solar flares and geomagnetic storms, it's right more often than wrong. Thus it's a very useful tool. ---- 73, Rich - W3ZJ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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10 meters is 32.8 feet. So at 45 feet a 10 meter dipole is 1.4
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wavelengths high. According to the ARRL Antenna book, such a horizontally polarized antenna would theoretically have peaks in the vertical plane lobes at approximately 10, 30 and 60 degrees. At 5 degrees it is about 6db down from the peak. All of that is assuming that your antenna is mounted over flat perfectly conducting ground which no one actually has. Since we really don't know what kind of ground we have, we don't know at what depth the virtual reflections come from or how much ground loss we suffer to get there. So, it's pretty safe to assume that our actual antennas don't conform exactly to the theory and as Murphy would have it, they almost certainly don't perform as well as theory would have it. However, as Dave says, be optimistic about PropView predictions, assume you have a good 3 to 5 degree radiation angle so that you don't miss a good band opening because you thought you had no radiation at those low angles. However, if you are trying to call an ambulance to take your XYL to the hospital to deliver your first born, use a land line :-) ---- 73, Rich - W3ZJ -----Original Message----- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> ClubMom is the first free organization dedicated to rewarding and celebrating Moms! Join today - it's free - and get your chance to win in our $5,000 Family Vacation Sweepstakes! ------------------------------------------------------------------ ---_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Ron Eberson
io have 5 over 5 for 28Mhz and have 5 degrees see the diverence in PropView
with 15 and 10 degrees so be realistic and make not the good pic. with low angels better take more than less. O.k. for this subjetc i think we must stop this can be weeks going on. Be positif have fun with the programm -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Richard B Drake [mailto:rich@...] Verzonden: woensdag 25 april 2001 20:07 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] Re: PropView Question 10 meters is 32.8 feet. So at 45 feet a 10 meter dipole is 1.4 wavelengths high. According to the ARRL Antenna book, such a horizontally polarized antenna would theoretically have peaks in the vertical plane lobes at approximately 10, 30 and 60 degrees. At 5 degrees it is about 6db down from the peak. All of that is assuming that your antenna is mounted over flat perfectly conducting ground which no one actually has. Since we really don't know what kind of ground we have, we don't know at what depth the virtual reflections come from or how much ground loss we suffer to get there. So, it's pretty safe to assume that our actual antennas don't conform exactly to the theory and as Murphy would have it, they almost certainly don't perform as well as theory would have it. However, as Dave says, be optimistic about PropView predictions, assume you have a good 3 to 5 degree radiation angle so that you don't miss a good band opening because you thought you had no radiation at those low angles. However, if you are trying to call an ambulance to take your XYL to the hospital to deliver your first born, use a land line :-) ---- 73, Rich - W3ZJ -----Original Message----- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> ClubMom is the first free organization dedicated to rewarding and celebrating Moms! Join today - it's free - and get your chance to win in our $5,000 Family Vacation Sweepstakes! ------------------------------------------------------------------ ---_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Tom Brouard
Thank you all for helping me with this concept. I now have a much clearer
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understanding. It was fun reading all of the information from everyone. I expect to be involved with more discussions of the DXLabs products. I hope to meet you on the airwaves soon. Happy DX 73 de KB2VNB Tom -----Original Message-----
From: Ron Eberson [mailto:zx@...] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:23 PM To: dxlab@... Subject: RE: [dxlab] Re: PropView Question io have 5 over 5 for 28Mhz and have 5 degrees see the diverence in PropView with 15 and 10 degrees so be realistic and make not the good pic. with low angels better take more than less. O.k. for this subjetc i think we must stop this can be weeks going on. Be positif have fun with the programm -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Richard B Drake [mailto:rich@...] Verzonden: woensdag 25 april 2001 20:07 Aan: dxlab@... Onderwerp: RE: [dxlab] Re: PropView Question 10 meters is 32.8 feet. So at 45 feet a 10 meter dipole is 1.4 wavelengths high. According to the ARRL Antenna book, such a horizontally polarized antenna would theoretically have peaks in the vertical plane lobes at approximately 10, 30 and 60 degrees. At 5 degrees it is about 6db down from the peak. All of that is assuming that your antenna is mounted over flat perfectly conducting ground which no one actually has. Since we really don't know what kind of ground we have, we don't know at what depth the virtual reflections come from or how much ground loss we suffer to get there. So, it's pretty safe to assume that our actual antennas don't conform exactly to the theory and as Murphy would have it, they almost certainly don't perform as well as theory would have it. However, as Dave says, be optimistic about PropView predictions, assume you have a good 3 to 5 degree radiation angle so that you don't miss a good band opening because you thought you had no radiation at those low angles. However, if you are trying to call an ambulance to take your XYL to the hospital to deliver your first born, use a land line :-) ---- 73, Rich - W3ZJ -----Original Message----- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> ClubMom is the first free organization dedicated to rewarding and celebrating Moms! Join today - it's free - and get your chance to win in our $5,000 Family Vacation Sweepstakes! ------------------------------------------------------------------ ---_-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dxlab-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
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Dave Bernstein
You're correct, Ron; I have no idea how I got 3 wavelengths.
At 1.3 wavelengths, the takeoff angle should still be quite a bit below 45 degrees... 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In dxlab@y..., "Ron Eberson" <zx@c...> wrote: Dave 45 feet are 13.71 meters so 1.3 wavelengths of the ground 1feet are 30,48 CM.the take offtakeas well. off ifyou will |
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