Re: A different way to look at the stars
Speaking of migration waves in the Pacific and similarities.
The Pleiades in different Pacific languages:
Hawaiian; Makali'i Samoan: Li'i Tongan: Mataliki Tahitian: Matari'i Maoris of New Zealand: Matariki Melanesian (Vanuatu): Mataliki Pohnpei (Micronesia): Makeriker
On Sunday, February 2, 2025 at 09:52:33 AM EST, kiowa706 via groups.io <kiowa706@...> wrote:
Thanks for the info.? It's always enjoyable to dive into something and next thing you onow you're 10 websites away.
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The astro-archeaology story, it wouldn't be the one regarding why we call it the Seven Sisters and it's relation Orion the Hunter would it?
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Re: A different way to look at the stars
No, though there is an interesting thing about the seven sisters and Orion that crosses very diverse and isolated cultures that would have had no contact or at least none that anyone knows about, being too ancient. The stories can have similar aspects. I suppose being an obvious asterism in the sky, it could invoke stories along similar lines. The Australian aborigines have a very similar story to many cultures. They are one of the oldest continuous cultures on the planet it seems.
In Hawaii it is quite different. The asterism was thought of as fruit or food that a bad Ali'i (royal personage) horded from the people. This would have been quite unacceptable in Hawaiian tradition and society. The hungry people wanted to get the food and a mouse volunteered to go up and cut the sack that held the food. That is what you see in the sky now. The food that fell out of the sack. Nothing to do with women hiding from some male threat in western and Australian culture.
Scorpius was the fishhook of Maui which pulled the world from the oceans. That is fairly easy to see too considering the shape of the constellation. Remember they are further south than us and see a bit different sky. Also there were vast low horizons on the open ocean hence the very long, multi constellation, lines.? Navigation was a unified holistic observation of stars, birds, current patterns, and wave patterns. Wayfinders were highly respected and sat in the rear of the canoe, often not sleeping for long periods. That was their only job. Not the mechanics of sailing. Many were children of wayfinders and the knowledge was passed to progeny.
There is one lovely story of a famous navigator who was placed in a tidal pool at the age of 1 or 2 to get an intuitive feel of ocean rhythms. Upon? his first open water voyage, when he was older, he got sea sick so his teacher tied a rope around his waist and drug him behind the canoe until the nausea passed. 
On Sunday, February 2, 2025 at 09:52:33 AM EST, kiowa706 via groups.io <kiowa706@...> wrote:
Thanks for the info.? It's always enjoyable to dive into something and next thing you onow you're 10 websites away.
?
The astro-archeaology story, it wouldn't be the one regarding why we call it the Seven Sisters and it's relation Orion the Hunter would it?
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Re: A different way to look at the stars
Thanks for the info.? It's always enjoyable to dive into something and next thing you onow you're 10 websites away.
?
The astro-archeaology story, it wouldn't be the one regarding why we call it the Seven Sisters and it's relation Orion the Hunter would it?
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Re: A different way to look at the stars
Sigh................trying to retrace my wanderings..... I will do my best to get you the site though there are many sites on Hawaiian wayfinding and star tradition.
This started with an astro archeology reference to the Pleiades which resulted in a phone? conversation with a friend who was born in Hawaii and has a grasp of the language.? The Hawaiian name for Pleiades is Makali'i which translates into "Little eyes" or perhaps "little objects" or "little stars". The star map name is translated into "the scoop of Makali'i" roughly. It is obvious from the picture. Anyways, this led to a lot further research into Polynesian navigation in particular (still ongoing).
It is nice having a native, so to speak, to bounce ideas off. Io groups does not let you post links but I can convey the site when I find it again. In the meantime just google "Hawaiian wayfinding" or anything to do with Polynesian traditional sky lore. It will get you there.
On Saturday, February 1, 2025 at 08:45:58 PM EST, kiowa706 via groups.io <kiowa706@...> wrote:
Great info!? If it wasn't cloudy here in Norfolk I'd go give it a try.? Where did you find this map?
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Re: A different way to look at the stars
Great info!? If it wasn't cloudy here in Norfolk I'd go give it a try.? Where did you find this map?
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Welcome to the club!? I'm a recent join as well, and can say that it's a great bunch of people.? Friendly and knowledgeable.? I've had fun at the observing events I've been able to attend.??
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A different way to look at the stars
The Polynesians made astonishing trips across the Pacific to colonize a vast area of the globe across considerable distances of open water. How did they wayfind? By looking at the constellations? in quite a different way than we do. Right now in the sky there are constellations that show you north and south lines. The Hawaiians looked at the sky in a wide perspective. Try it tonight. Attached is how to establish a North/South line with the current sky.?
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Hello Aaron. There is an observation you can make right now easily. No navigation required. Just find the brightest object in the western sky at sunset. The planet Venus is now undergoing a transition from a gibbous (slightly lopsided ball) to a large crescent in April. This is easy to see and track from almost anywhere. It will get larger in diameter constantly until April when it becomes a thin slice. Good opportunity to do a long repeated seires observation that is interesting and easy to do.
On Saturday, February 1, 2025 at 03:48:22 PM EST, aaron.cominio via groups.io <aaron.cominio@...> wrote:
Hello, everyone,
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My name is Aaron Cominio, and I¡¯m excited to be joining BBAA. Astronomy has always fascinated me, and recently, my 9 year old son has developed a strong interest as well. While I¡¯m very much an amateur, I¡¯m eager to learn more and grow in this hobby. My family and I enjoy using our Celestron 9.25 SCT, and we¡¯ve had some great experiences exploring the night sky together.
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I¡¯m grateful to have an astronomy club nearby and look forward to meeting and learning from all of you!
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Hello, everyone,
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My name is Aaron Cominio, and I¡¯m excited to be joining BBAA. Astronomy has always fascinated me, and recently, my 9 year old son has developed a strong interest as well. While I¡¯m very much an amateur, I¡¯m eager to learn more and grow in this hobby. My family and I enjoy using our Celestron 9.25 SCT, and we¡¯ve had some great experiences exploring the night sky together.
?
I¡¯m grateful to have an astronomy club nearby and look forward to meeting and learning from all of you!
?
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I found the S50 to be a little too large and too heavy when I took it to Botswana in December. Bush planes have a low weight limit, so I had to use a bit of trickery to get both the S50 and my photographic equipment through. So the S30 is likely a better?option for my upcoming trips to Alaska and South?Africa. But I'm a little concerned?about the resolution difference. How substantial is it? On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 10:10?AM Troy Riedel via <troy.riedel= [email protected]> wrote: Michael,
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Attached for size comparisons though in reality the S30 seems much smaller than the S50, more so than the photo shows, b/c of the weight difference. The footprint of the scope inside the case is quite different. Both Seestars need a better tripod than the OEM. The S30 tripod is a 'joke' - though one has to remember its purpose is to be put into a backpack or into carry-on luggage ... aka very portable. I immediately bought INNOREL carbon fiber tripods for both, the S50 after seeing the OEM tripod and the S30 two months before it was even delivered. I spent about 50% of the cost of the S50 on the CF tripod, and just north of 40% the cost of the S30 with a slightly lighter & smaller INNOREL CF tripod.
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. Any use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be a violation of state and/or Federal privacy laws. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete any copies of it from your computer. ??
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Michael,
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Attached for size comparisons though in reality the S30 seems much smaller than the S50, more so than the photo shows, b/c of the weight difference. The footprint of the scope inside the case is quite different. Both Seestars need a better tripod than the OEM. The S30 tripod is a 'joke' - though one has to remember its purpose is to be put into a backpack or into carry-on luggage ... aka very portable. I immediately bought INNOREL carbon fiber tripods for both, the S50 after seeing the OEM tripod and the S30 two months before it was even delivered. I spent about 50% of the cost of the S50 on the CF tripod, and just north of 40% the cost of the S30 with a slightly lighter & smaller INNOREL CF tripod.
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Mark,
I'm sure there are many YouTube comparisons. Since I own both, I didn't want to be unduly influenced before I had a chance to make my own judgment so?I haven't read or watched anything others?have opined. If anyone is interested in seeing 'untouched' images from both, I'd be happy to post ('untouched' meaning?zero post-processing).
Troy
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There are a couple recent comparisons on YouTube. Nico Carver (Nebula Photos) and Cuiv the Lazy Geek recently posted video reviews.?
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 7:44?PM, Michael Hall via groups.io <mhall@...> wrote:
? Could you bring the S30 to our next meeting? I'd like to see it, and I expect others would as well. On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 11:32?AM Troy Riedel via <troy.riedel= [email protected]> wrote: After pre-ordering the S50 after it was announced, a buddy in Ohio cajoled me into pre-ordering the S30. The S30 arrived about 10-11 days ago and I've had the opportunity to set-up both, side-by-side, on 3 nights running one with my iPad & the other with the iPh.
I have my own very preliminary thoughts and I wonder if anyone else here has done the same preliminary comparison?
S30: $350
S50: $499
+ S30: more portable (tiny)
+ S30: Camera Sensor - lower noise, less imaging time per object
+ S30: Larger FOV - great for large DSOs
+ S30: quicker to do a mosaic
+S30: Wide Angle lens makes it great for terrestrial imaging (wildlife, landscapes, city skylines ...)
+ S50: Camera Sensor - greater resolution =?more detail (in side-by-side comparisons)
+ S50: 50mm vs 30mm aperture means more light gathering power
Though I give more (+)s to the S30, the S50 (+)s IMO have greater weight than most of the S30 (+)s. I'm frankly undecided if I prefer one over the other but if you force me to choose, I'd probably lean S50.
Very preliminary?...
I figured that after playing with both, I'd decide to keep one & flip or gift the other. It's too soon, but given their cost vs. utility I just may keep both and eventually gift the?S50 after [& assuming] the S50 is updated and/or offered in a larger?aperture? ?
For $350 or $499, you can't go wrong.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. Any use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be a violation of state and/or Federal privacy laws. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete any copies of it from your computer. ??
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Could you bring the S30 to our next meeting? I'd like to see it, and I expect others would as well. On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 11:32?AM Troy Riedel via <troy.riedel= [email protected]> wrote: After pre-ordering the S50 after it was announced, a buddy in Ohio cajoled me into pre-ordering the S30. The S30 arrived about 10-11 days ago and I've had the opportunity to set-up both, side-by-side, on 3 nights running one with my iPad & the other with the iPh.
I have my own very preliminary thoughts and I wonder if anyone else here has done the same preliminary comparison?
S30: $350
S50: $499
+ S30: more portable (tiny)
+ S30: Camera Sensor - lower noise, less imaging time per object
+ S30: Larger FOV - great for large DSOs
+ S30: quicker to do a mosaic
+S30: Wide Angle lens makes it great for terrestrial imaging (wildlife, landscapes, city skylines ...)
+ S50: Camera Sensor - greater resolution =?more detail (in side-by-side comparisons)
+ S50: 50mm vs 30mm aperture means more light gathering power
Though I give more (+)s to the S30, the S50 (+)s IMO have greater weight than most of the S30 (+)s. I'm frankly undecided if I prefer one over the other but if you force me to choose, I'd probably lean S50.
Very preliminary?...
I figured that after playing with both, I'd decide to keep one & flip or gift the other. It's too soon, but given their cost vs. utility I just may keep both and eventually gift the?S50 after [& assuming] the S50 is updated and/or offered in a larger?aperture? ?
For $350 or $499, you can't go wrong.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. Any use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be a violation of state and/or Federal privacy laws. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete any copies of it from your computer. ??
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After pre-ordering the S50 after it was announced, a buddy in Ohio cajoled me into pre-ordering the S30. The S30 arrived about 10-11 days ago and I've had the opportunity to set-up both, side-by-side, on 3 nights running one with my iPad & the other with the iPh.
I have my own very preliminary thoughts and I wonder if anyone else here has done the same preliminary comparison?
S30: $350
S50: $499
+ S30: more portable (tiny)
+ S30: Camera Sensor - lower noise, less imaging time per object
+ S30: Larger FOV - great for large DSOs
+ S30: quicker to do a mosaic
+S30: Wide Angle lens makes it great for terrestrial imaging (wildlife, landscapes, city skylines ...)
+ S50: Camera Sensor - greater resolution =?more detail (in side-by-side comparisons)
+ S50: 50mm vs 30mm aperture means more light gathering power
Though I give more (+)s to the S30, the S50 (+)s IMO have greater weight than most of the S30 (+)s. I'm frankly undecided if I prefer one over the other but if you force me to choose, I'd probably lean S50.
Very preliminary?...
I figured that after playing with both, I'd decide to keep one & flip or gift the other. It's too soon, but given their cost vs. utility I just may keep both and eventually gift the?S50 after [& assuming] the S50 is updated and/or offered in a larger?aperture? ?
For $350 or $499, you can't go wrong.
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York River State Park: Saturday 1 February CANCELED
Ranger Charlie just reached out to say they have to cancel Saturday Night's outreach & open obs due to a staff emergency/emergency leave situ.
Our next scheduled?session is Saturday Night, 1 March.
r/ Troy
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Actually will max out in size this year in April, not June.
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As the planet show winds down Venus takes the stage for the last act of the year.
Of course most of you already know this but now is a
good time to start to regularly watch Venus. As the planets close out their
observing season, Venus now takes the center stage.
Of all the planets, none, other
than perhaps Mars, changes in size so much during it's orbit around the
sun. Oddly, Venus as it becomes a more and more defined crescent,
actually gets considerably brighter. This is already happening. It now
is a distinct crescent whereas a couple of months ago it was gibbous.
This is fun to watch and the size difference over time is considerable. It should
get to be the largest diameter around June or thereabouts. It is an easy target and provides a very
nice extended observation. The observation can be done from anywhere as it is fairly high in the sky now.
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YRSP: Saturday, 1 February & Meteorology 101
Saturday Night is shaping-up to be a 'go'. I suspect I'll be able to make the official?'go/no-go' call early on Saturday before 3PM.
As I've mentioned here at least once before, I was a Synoptic (literally meaning 'co-incident in time') Aviation Weather Forecaster & Flight Weather Briefer (mil flight ops) in my distant past. At this point in my life I don't sit around and hand-analyze upper air charts. But just using very basic Weather 101, the conditions Saturday Night are tracking to be decent (but not perfect) just using very basic knowledge of weather patterns. I thought I'd share the following which may be helpful to a few to the enthusiasts & amateurs who follow our Groups.io message boards: Weather Patterns 101
- - ?Cold frontal passage on late-Friday (ok, 0Z Saturday West-to-east if you follow UTC)
- - A post-cold frontal trough (typically at 500mb - a constant pressure level?that's roughly 18,000 FT) often follows CFP (cold frontal passage) roughly 6-18 hours after FROPA (Frontal Passage)
- - ?The post-cold frontal trough?typically will bring some mid-etage clouds ... etage means LEVEL - it's an accepted scientific?term just as one could?use?deja vu, bon voyage, de facto, mea culpa?in normal English (those aren't English words). I bring this up b/c I was once brow-beaten here by a few who thought I was dropping?a nondescript French word and was told to please use English. I am sorry if I have previously offended :-0 ... I'm doing my best to define everything in this post.
So ... looking at our Astro Wx apps & Astro forecast sites, you can easily see the graphically depicted scenario I explained?... beginning on Friday: clouds, precip, followed by a general clearing and then the 500mb shortwave trough (which TV broadcasters will generally refer to as a 'weak disturbance' IF?they mention it at all) moves through. With the trough's passage, you'll see that graphically depicted as generally clear before, a degradation of sky conditions & clouds, followed by a second clearing after the trough passes.
I will point-out that in the winter ... very generally speaking?... the most stable air in an air mass (a front separates two air masses) is most often 24-36 hours after FROPA (all of these general times vary by season & are driven by steering currents like the position of the PFJ - polar front jet).
Assuming this weekend's weather pattern follows basic Weather Patterns 101 Class, Saturday P.M.?should?result in few (only fair weather) clouds - if any - that dissipate meaning good transparency but the best SEEING - the time when we'd be nearest to the most stable air of the incoming air mass - would most likely occur after we finish our obs and depart Saturday Night.
Of course, Fluid (aka atmospheric) Dynamics isn't always textbook - and local geography among other things must be factored in. If it were always textbook, there would be vast unemployment in the field! But as of right now, the weather pattern over the next 72-hours looks more textbook than not.
Hopefully Saturday is indeed classic Weather Patterns 101. We have decent weather. And we have a good turnout of amateurs & enthusiasts at YRSP.
IF everything I've said is wrong, just like every good forecaster, I'm sure that I'll have a scientific excuse! Yes, seriously - I'll find a valid excuse ... uh ... reason??
Cheers,?
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York River State Park: Outreach & open observing this Saturday, 1 February
Our monthly scheduled outreach & observing session at??is this?Saturday Night, 1 February. Please ensure you read the ¡°New Note¡±. ? Calendar Note:?if there is another event on the VPAS or Back Bay calendars, this is an?additional event?and it does not supersede nor replace any other event. ? Address:?9801 York River Park Rd, Williamsburg, VA 23188 Park Phone: 757-566-3036 Lat:?37.414639 Long:?-76.713562
GPS Coordinates:
37¡ã 24' 52.7004'' N ? ? 76¡ã 42' 48.8232'' W ? The public is invited & this event is posted on the YRSP Website calendar & facebook Pager.?We ask that members of the public who are attending to please park in?designated visitor parking?& walk to the site so there is enough space for the amateur astronomers to transport & park next to their gear on the observing field.?After outreach, the amateur astronomers take over and we have YRSP to ourselves as long as we wish to observe. The sky at YRSP is as dark as it can get in this area.? ? New Note ¨C please read:?2025 brings a couple of small changes to the normal protocol. The first obvious change is a Ranger will be on-hand during every outreach period. Another change is I will no longer ¡®hold¡¯ the padlock ¡ the gate will be?dummy-locked?by the departing duty Ranger so if anyone leaves early, you¡¯ll have to open the gate, close it and (re)dummy-lock it?(just please do not lock the rest of us in). ? Observing Site: After entering the park (the entrance fee is waived for amateur astronomers), the participating amateur astronomers should drive to & enter the ¡®right¡¯ parking lot. At the back/riverside corner of the lot, take the ¡°No Admittance¡± gravel road/path (we are allowed to drive on it) to the observing site where you may park & unload.?If you notice public outreach attendees driving to the observing site, please help me police the area by re-directing them to the visitor parking lots. ? Due to the proximity of the river, be prepared to battle dew. Consider bringing a lightweight tarp to cover your eyepieces and other accessories on your observing table. Those who have scopes susceptible to dew, you will likely need a dew heater. ? We¡¯ll observe until we get tired. We¡¯ll start at sunset ¨C? ? Forecast Links:
? A Go/No Go will be posted on the VPAS & Back Bay Groups on Saturday AFTN NLT (no later than) 3:00 PM. ? Cheers. Troy
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Mark
