No, beyond amateur scopes visually. Olympus Mons has not been on the face recently and you would have to have clouds above it and see the clouds. Clouds are usually seen in light blue filters. All your observing is albedo features. Now on exceptional nights of very steady seeing and a big disc (something we don't have now and won't for a very long time), you may see more detail in the shades but no physical detail, as on the moon, that I have ever seen. It is Mars spring right now so some features are there and some are not.
The classic observers in the nineteenth century were using refractors in the 29 to 40 inch range and even then detail was very ambiguous at best. A few serious claims by very good observers who were quite honest were rumored but are not really accepted now as correct. It took the Martian space probes to start to fill in the blanks from orbit. Up till that time no one knew if there were craters or what? So yes all you see are shades and you have to interpret those shades based on location.
Hellas Basin is a great example. Visually, an oval that is a lighter shade than the area around it but what was it actually? It could easily be mistaken for a pole. Only after NASA was it identified as the largest impact basin in the solar system.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 04:54:02 PM EST, Jonathan Scheetz <jonathan@...> wrote:
I think I made a mistake reading people's observations of mars on Cloudy Nights.?
?
There were two objects that people reported being able to see visually in 8" to 10" scopes: "Olympus Mons" and the "Tharsis Montes" 3 Volcano Grouping.
Most of the time it seems they were just seeing clouds above those objects.
?
My question for the group:?
Has anyone ever seen any detail on mars visually other than the ice cap and albedo regions.
?
I don't expect I ever will but it would be interesting to know if it was really possible.
?
- Jonathan
?
?
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OK, perhaps this is cheating somewhat (so sue me). ?But I¡¯ve enjoyed Lower¡¯s Nebula twice with the 18-inch Dob using a PVS-14 white phosphor night vison device and a 7nm h-alpha filter atop a 50mm Russel Optics Plossl. It¡¯s quite obvious with this combination: ¡°large, bright, and annular with wispy extensions¡±. Not so very unlike Ian¡¯s photograph. (12/5/2021 and 9/18/2023) ? Ted BBAA southwest ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kent Blackwell via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2024 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BackBayAstro] Lowers Nebula? I've only suspected seeing Lower's Nebula once from Coinjock NC using my 25" Dobsonian: Lower's Nebula - Sh 2-261
(Bright Nebula in Orion)
Observed: Jan 19, 2014, 9:20:00 PM I could barely see some slight brightening as I moved the scope. The OIII filter didn't help.?
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I think I made a mistake reading people's observations of mars on Cloudy Nights.?
?
There were two objects that people reported being able to see visually in 8" to 10" scopes: "Olympus Mons" and the "Tharsis Montes" 3 Volcano Grouping.
Most of the time it seems they were just seeing clouds above those objects.
?
My question for the group:?
Has anyone ever seen any detail on mars visually other than the ice cap and albedo regions.
?
I don't expect I ever will but it would be interesting to know if it was really possible.
?
- Jonathan
?
?
|
I've only suspected seeing Lower's Nebula once from Coinjock NC using my 25" Dobsonian:
?
Lower's Nebula - Sh 2-261
(Bright Nebula in Orion)
Observed: Jan 19, 2014, 9:20:00 PM
I could barely see some slight brightening as I moved the scope. The OIII filter didn't help.?
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January BBAA Meeting Location Change
Since TCC is closed for the holidays, our BBAA meeting this Thursday, January 2, 2025 will be held at the Kempsville Recreation Center on Monmouth Drive in Virginia Beach, 7:30 - 9:00 pm.
I don't know if it will be possible to record this meeting or have it on ZOOM, so you may want to plan to be present at the rec center.
George
George Reynolds
"Solar System Ambassador" for South Hampton Roads, Virginia
Back Bay Amateur Astronomers (BBAA)?
?
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On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 09:03:17 AM EST, Ian Stewart <ian@...> wrote:
I see a poodle face :-)
On 12/31/2024 8:50 AM, Jonathan Scheetz
wrote:
Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression
after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping
in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
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It was a good night last night. Dry and very transparent. Good transit of Europa across Jupiter. Terrible Mars seeing.
Oh and a very interesting observation. Around 8:30 or so a very very bright satellite went by Mars. I have never seen such a bright satellite. It was brighter than Mars (really) and quite gold colored. I assume it was the NASA solar sail. Nothing else would be that bright.
Good image as always Ian. Happy new years.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 08:37:48 AM EST, Ian Stewart via groups.io <swampcolliecoffee@...> wrote:
Last night was a perfect night for imaging. Cool temps, good transparency and seeing. Here is a few hours on a less well known nebula - Sh2-261 Lowers Nebula. I haven't photographed this in quite a few years.
Cheers
Ian
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I see a poodle face :-)
On 12/31/2024 8:50 AM, Jonathan Scheetz
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression
after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping
in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
|
Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
|
Last night was a perfect night for imaging. Cool temps, good transparency and seeing. Here is a few hours on a less well known nebula - Sh2-261 Lowers Nebula. I haven't photographed this in quite a few years.
Cheers
Ian
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YRSP Tonight 28 Dec: No-go
Tonight is a No-go?... but [don't forget] there's always next Saturday Night for our?January Obs night.
Happy New Year, Troy
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Saturday 28 December AND Saturday 04 January: YRSP observing night
Our monthly scheduled observing session at??is this?Saturday Night, 28 December?¨C and in fact we¡¯ll have our January observing session on the following?Saturday ¨C 04 January?so please keep both dates in mind. Also, please ensure you read the ¡°New Note¡± (5 paragraphs below this one). ? Calendar Note:?if there is another event on the VPAS or Back Bay calendars, this is an?additional event?and it does not supersede nor replace any other event. ? Address:?9801 York River Park Rd, Williamsburg, VA 23188 Park Phone: 757-566-3036 Lat:?37.414639 Long:?-76.713562
GPS Coordinates:
37¡ã 24' 52.7004'' N ? ? 76¡ã 42' 48.8232'' W ? The public is invited & this event is posted on the YRSP Website calendar.?We ask that members of the public who are attending to please park in?designated visitor parking?& walk to the site so there is enough space for the amateur astronomers to transport & park next to their gear on the observing field.?After outreach, the amateur astronomers take over and we have YRSP to ourselves as long as we wish to observe. Using my SQM-L, the sky at YRSP is as dark as it can get in this area.? ? New Note ¨C please read:?This month will bring a couple of small changes to the normal protocol. The first obvious change is that I¡¯ve been told a Ranger will be on-hand during every outreach period. Another change is I will no longer ¡®hold¡¯ the padlock ¡ the gate will be?dummy-locked?by the departing duty Ranger so if anyone leaves early, you¡¯ll have to open the gate, (re)close it and (re)dummy-lock it?(just please do not lock the rest of us in). ? Observing Site: After entering the park (the entrance fee is waived for amateur astronomers), the participating amateur astronomers should drive to & enter the ¡®right¡¯ parking lot. At the back/riverside corner of the lot, take the ¡°No Admittance¡± gravel road/path (we are allowed to drive on it) to the observing site where you may park & unload.?If you notice public outreach attendees driving to the observing site, please help me police the area by re-directing them to the visitor parking lots. ? Due to the proximity of the river, be prepared to battle dew. Consider bringing a lightweight tarp to cover your eyepieces and other accessories on your observing table. Those who have scopes susceptible to dew, you will likely need a dew heater. ? We¡¯ll observe until we get tired. We¡¯ll start at sunset ¨C? ? Forecast Links:
? A Go/No Go will be posted on the VPAS & Back Bay Groups on Saturday AFTN NLT (no later than) 3:00 PM. ? Cheers. Troy
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Anyone else noticed that R Leporis is very faded this year
Hind's crimson star is definitely? not so crimson this year. This is the most faded I have seen in a couple of decades. Just an uninspiring yellow.
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Thought I should follow up to clarify.
On Saturday, December 21, 2024 at 08:17:14 AM EST, Ian Stewart <ian@...> wrote:
Thanks Mark - good suggestions.
On 12/21/2024 8:00 AM, jimcoble2000 via
groups.io wrote:
For anyone who might be new
to Mars I should clarify a few observations when talking about
Mars. Experienced folks may ignore this if you have looked at
Mars for some time.
When I say I saw places like
Hellas, Syrtis Major, or other places on Mars you can't expect
to see things with the detail you can on the moon. On the moon
you can see the actual structural features, much like a pen
and ink drawing. Mars is quite different. What you see there
are pastel shades of say an Impressionist painting (smeared by
seeing). No hard lines and certainly no craters and such. It
is just too small and far away. Astro photos can fool you when
you observe visually. They show detail unobtainable to the
human eye using amateur telescopes of moderate size. Mars maps
by say NASA are not much help either.
The trick is to find a map or
image that shows the general location on the planet of some
reflection (albedo) feature and what the colors look like at
the eyepiece. Good examples are the poles that stand out
easily because they are so reflective. But the Hellas Basin is
also light colored, big, and located at what could easily be
mistaken as a pole. So to observe Mars some homework is sort
of required. In large part the game is to figure out "what am
I seeing"?
Seeing is really important
here as it easily smears out subtle shadings. Filters are also
required to make out the subtle shadings. Know what to expect
prior to going to the eyepiece. Dress warm :)
But that's what makes Mars
observing fun. Don't get discouraged if you look and go "what
is he talking about"? Mars is worth the effort when you do get
the magic moment and you know what you are looking for. There
was a long line of very talented observers, with very big
telescopes, who spent their lives chasing this planet and
still didn't get it right but they had a heck of a trip.
|
Thanks Mark - good suggestions.
On 12/21/2024 8:00 AM, jimcoble2000 via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
For anyone who might be new
to Mars I should clarify a few observations when talking about
Mars. Experienced folks may ignore this if you have looked at
Mars for some time.
When I say I saw places like
Hellas, Syrtis Major, or other places on Mars you can't expect
to see things with the detail you can on the moon. On the moon
you can see the actual structural features, much like a pen
and ink drawing. Mars is quite different. What you see there
are pastel shades of say an Impressionist painting (smeared by
seeing). No hard lines and certainly no craters and such. It
is just too small and far away. Astro photos can fool you when
you observe visually. They show detail unobtainable to the
human eye using amateur telescopes of moderate size. Mars maps
by say NASA are not much help either.
The trick is to find a map or
image that shows the general location on the planet of some
reflection (albedo) feature and what the colors look like at
the eyepiece. Good examples are the poles that stand out
easily because they are so reflective. But the Hellas Basin is
also light colored, big, and located at what could easily be
mistaken as a pole. So to observe Mars some homework is sort
of required. In large part the game is to figure out "what am
I seeing"?
Seeing is really important
here as it easily smears out subtle shadings. Filters are also
required to make out the subtle shadings. Know what to expect
prior to going to the eyepiece. Dress warm :)
But that's what makes Mars
observing fun. Don't get discouraged if you look and go "what
is he talking about"? Mars is worth the effort when you do get
the magic moment and you know what you are looking for. There
was a long line of very talented observers, with very big
telescopes, who spent their lives chasing this planet and
still didn't get it right but they had a heck of a trip.
|
For anyone who might be new to Mars I should clarify a few observations when talking about Mars. Experienced folks may ignore this if you have looked at Mars for some time.
When I say I saw places like Hellas, Syrtis Major, or other places on Mars you can't expect to see things with the detail you can on the moon. On the moon you can see the actual structural features, much like a pen and ink drawing. Mars is quite different. What you see there are pastel shades of say an Impressionist painting (smeared by seeing). No hard lines and certainly no craters and such. It is just too small and far away. Astro photos can fool you when you observe visually. They show detail unobtainable to the human eye using amateur telescopes of moderate size. Mars maps by say NASA are not much help either.
The trick is to find a map or image that shows the general location on the planet of some reflection (albedo) feature and what the colors look like at the eyepiece. Good examples are the poles that stand out easily because they are so reflective. But the Hellas Basin is also light colored, big, and located at what could easily be mistaken as a pole. So to observe Mars some homework is sort of required. In large part the game is to figure out "what am I seeing"?
Seeing is really important here as it easily smears out subtle shadings. Filters are also required to make out the subtle shadings. Know what to expect prior to going to the eyepiece. Dress warm :)
But that's what makes Mars observing fun. Don't get discouraged if you look and go "what is he talking about"? Mars is worth the effort when you do get the magic moment and you know what you are looking for. There was a long line of very talented observers, with very big telescopes, who spent their lives chasing this planet and still didn't get it right but they had a heck of a trip.
|
I am belt folded stapled and mutilated. 1145 at night and
I just wrapped up a couple of hours with Mars. Started the night with a
few doubles but had a tough time getting into a rhythm. Mars got high
enough to start about 9 or 9:30. Seeing was quite variable. The clouds
cleared out around 8:45. I used the 4 inch SV with various EPs. The best
was the Takahashi TOE 3.3mm oddly. Normally I quit power at the 4mm Zeiss but I
have found sometimes when seeing isn't the best, push harder. At least
it will be big and when it does settle you will see the details easier.
The TOE 3.3mm gave 239X. A 30A Magenta Vernonscope filter was used for
the observation.
I did try
some of the old 0.956 Orthoscopic EPs with an adapter. They work quite
well in the F/8 scope but I needed more power than my collection of
Zeiss and Takahashi older orthos could muster. Excellent quality though.
Would work well on Jupiter.
The
pole was quite visible with a dark band around it which is listed as
Utopia. The Hellas basin showed well also surrounded by a dark area of
Mare Tyrrhenum. Syrtis Major was rotating on to the face when I quit.
This is the first time I've seen Syrtis Major this year.
The
disc is getting larger now and you can positively do good work. Tonight
required a lot of patience as seeing was very on off. When it was good
for moments you could use the higher powers to see the detail. One nice
thing about the old F/17 scope is the generous focus window. The modern
faster scopes have a much narrower focus range. You had to be on focus
tonight to see the best detail in this poor seeing. That makes achieving
focus a bit of a challenge. Anyways very acceptable night even if it
wasn't great.
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Re: Thursday Night at the Chesapeake Planetarium
Kent did his Moses imitation (a bit less showy to be sure) to part the clouds just long enough to let his audience go to the telescope. Go figure the odds. A nice evening? for the end of the year. Thanks for the memories as Bob Hope would say.
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Thursday Night at the Chesapeake Planetarium
Thursday night, December 19th was the final Christmas Star program at the Chesapeake Planetarium in Chesapeake VA. Although the forecast was for clouds, the sky cleared long enough for us to show people Jupiter through our Celestron C-14. Dr. Hitt came back upon request to run his very popular program, a program he has presented five decades.
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Re: DSC and GoTo mount batteries
I can use my back up power supply to serve as an emergency power if things get tough while observing. It will run the unit and charge it, slowly, simultaneously. I suspect as I said that it is better to not do that but it will get you through he night.
I am not sure if all lithium batteries work the same, probably not, but if you ever let a lithium car battery get down to 9 volts you may as well just go out and buy a new battery cause it is dead and won't resurrect.
With your luck with the atmosphere, I don't see how you can maintain a battery. The only place worse you could live, weather wise, is on Jupiter, under one of the two main bands. Not sure how much real estate goes for on Jupiter.
Well.... maybe worse weather in the arctic, the Amazon (region, not the retailer), all of Eastern Europe, Antarctica, The empty quarter in Arabia, Detroit.........................
On Thursday, December 19, 2024 at 09:43:51 AM EST, Roy Diffrient <mail@...> wrote:
Yeah, my SkyFi battery will totally discharge in less than a month of inactivity. ?I¡¯ve about given up on trying to keep it charged ¨C I just run it off the telescope 12V battery using a car USB charger when I_finally_ get out observing. ?And thankfully I don¡¯t have to wait for it to charge to use the DSC function ¨C it does both at once.
On 12/18/2024 9:40 PM EST Kent Blackwell via groups.io <kent@...> wrote:
?
?
A number of people report built in batteries having issues. Funny, my Lumicon Sky Vector DSC (remember those?) controller from the 1990's used a standard 9v battery and was so very simple. It never failed me in 20 years. 9v batteries are inexpensive and, and at least for me, easily lasted two nights, even on the cold winter evenings. But I've moved on from that device.?
?
I currently use a Nexus II that links the encoders on my telescope(s) to my iPhone. It has a built-in rechargeable battery and is great. I'm just glad a bought a spare Nexus II because when the battery does run down it DIES, with no warning.?
?
I also have a SkyFi controller from Simulated Curriculum that I use with my 10" Orion IntelliScope. It allows me hop from celestial object to object using my iPhone, instead of relying on the somewhat awkward and outdated Orion Object Locator hand controller. The battery depletes all by itself, even when turned off. Roy D. can attest to that. His does the same.?
?
We complain but just think of the amazing things these devices do. When I think back of the days of using paper star charts, I thank my lucky ~stars~ we have what we do today.?
?
Kent
?
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Ted Forte
Jonathan Scheetz
Kent Blackwell
Ian Stewart
