Seeing was pretty rough as expected with a cold front coming in. It was not impossible to do any work on Mars but only the most rudimentary stuff. In short, the usual. I toggled between 239x and 197x. Takahashi TOE 3.3mm and Zeiss ZAO I 4mm respectively. As always, the polar cap and Mare Boreum were fairly obvious. Mare Boreum is the thin band of darker albedo surrounding the polar cap. Being spring, the cap is not particularly large. Seeing prevented seeing the darker areas at the bottom of the disc opposite the pole very clearly. It was there but that's all I could say about it. 30A magenta filter gave the most natural coloring. I did use an 82A Light blue to see if any clouds could be seen but none were visible to me. The 82A does light up the cap though. Syrtis Major has not been on the disc most of this observing year.
Selecting the right power is always a bit of a judgment call. At 197 the disc was sharper but seeing still presented a problem. At 239, seeing wasn't that much worse and the disc is larger so maybe you can wait for a moment of clarity. At least you have a larger disc to work with should the miracle occur. It did not BTW.
Good news this go around: Mars rides pretty high in the sky so less air to have to go through. Bad news this go around: Mars is not as large as the last two apparitions.
Still fun and cold but nothing to get up granny about.
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Re: I just checked heavens above and that bright satellite I mentioned a couple of days ago. It was the solar sail.
Oh yes the brightest thing in the sky when? it does reflect
On Wednesday, January 1, 2025 at 02:46:20 PM EST, Will Kiff <modok4@...> wrote:
I didn¡¯t even know that nasa had a solar sail. I¡¯m out of the loop.?
On Jan 1, 2025, at 1:43?PM, Mark Ost <jimcoble2000@...> wrote:
? Magnitude 1.8
Looked back on the Monday pass schedule and time.
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Re: I just checked heavens above and that bright satellite I mentioned a couple of days ago. It was the solar sail.
I didn¡¯t even know that nasa had a solar sail. I¡¯m out of the loop.?
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On Jan 1, 2025, at 1:43?PM, Mark Ost <jimcoble2000@...> wrote:
? Magnitude 1.8
Looked back on the Monday pass schedule and time.
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I just checked heavens above and that bright satellite I mentioned a couple of days ago. It was the solar sail.
Magnitude 1.8
Looked back on the Monday pass schedule and time.
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I hope it doesn't bother you because there are loads of them. The picture enclosed is a good example of what can't be seen telescopically.? But I do recall a couple of nights, 3 to 5 years ago, when things were certainly very good. But prior to that for the 20 previous years only fair views. That is the charm of the place. Mars makes you earn every square inch. One life time of observing may be enough. The greats could count seasons on one hand usually with maybe a finger from the other but not much more.
Stand about twenty feet back from the picture, squint a bit and that is a good approximation.
On Wednesday, January 1, 2025 at 09:40:51 AM EST, Jonathan Scheetz <jonathan@...> wrote:
Thanks Mark.? I didn't really expect to see any surface detail in my scope.? When I set these kinds of challenges for myself I really don't expect to see anything.?
But sometimes I do get my hopes up but for some reason failures in astronomy never seem to bother me.
I've probably looked for three times as many galaxies as I've ever seem but sometimes I get to see something I didn't expect.
?
According to SkySafari Olympus Mons was supposed to be about dead center in mars when I was looking for it (see attached photo).? But of course I didn't see anything - and didn't expect to.
?
You comment about a "big disc" got me attention so I went out and found some info on that (see attached) - I didn't realize that mar's diameter changed that much at opposition.
The next "big disc" will be in 2035 and then again in 2050.? ?I'll be pretty old by then but I'll try to make it. :)
?
Based on some of the "comments" in Cloudy Nights I thought some of the folks in our group with big scopes might have been able to see Olympus Mons or the Tharsis Volcano grouping but based on your feedback I know that isn't possible.
?
Thanks for the information.
?
  ? ?
- Jonathan
?
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Thanks Mark.? I didn't really expect to see any surface detail in my scope.? When I set these kinds of challenges for myself I really don't expect to see anything.?
But sometimes I do get my hopes up but for some reason failures in astronomy never seem to bother me.
I've probably looked for three times as many galaxies as I've ever seem but sometimes I get to see something I didn't expect.
?
According to SkySafari Olympus Mons was supposed to be about dead center in mars when I was looking for it (see attached photo).? But of course I didn't see anything - and didn't expect to.
?
You comment about a "big disc" got me attention so I went out and found some info on that (see attached) - I didn't realize that mar's diameter changed that much at opposition.
The next "big disc" will be in 2035 and then again in 2050.? ?I'll be pretty old by then but I'll try to make it. :)
?
Based on some of the "comments" in Cloudy Nights I thought some of the folks in our group with big scopes might have been able to see Olympus Mons or the Tharsis Volcano grouping but based on your feedback I know that isn't possible.
?
Thanks for the information.
?
  ? ?
- Jonathan
?
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No, beyond amateur scopes visually. Olympus Mons has not been on the face recently and you would have to have clouds above it and see the clouds. Clouds are usually seen in light blue filters. All your observing is albedo features. Now on exceptional nights of very steady seeing and a big disc (something we don't have now and won't for a very long time), you may see more detail in the shades but no physical detail, as on the moon, that I have ever seen. It is Mars spring right now so some features are there and some are not.
The classic observers in the nineteenth century were using refractors in the 29 to 40 inch range and even then detail was very ambiguous at best. A few serious claims by very good observers who were quite honest were rumored but are not really accepted now as correct. It took the Martian space probes to start to fill in the blanks from orbit. Up till that time no one knew if there were craters or what? So yes all you see are shades and you have to interpret those shades based on location.
Hellas Basin is a great example. Visually, an oval that is a lighter shade than the area around it but what was it actually? It could easily be mistaken for a pole. Only after NASA was it identified as the largest impact basin in the solar system.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 04:54:02 PM EST, Jonathan Scheetz <jonathan@...> wrote:
I think I made a mistake reading people's observations of mars on Cloudy Nights.?
?
There were two objects that people reported being able to see visually in 8" to 10" scopes: "Olympus Mons" and the "Tharsis Montes" 3 Volcano Grouping.
Most of the time it seems they were just seeing clouds above those objects.
?
My question for the group:?
Has anyone ever seen any detail on mars visually other than the ice cap and albedo regions.
?
I don't expect I ever will but it would be interesting to know if it was really possible.
?
- Jonathan
?
?
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OK, perhaps this is cheating somewhat (so sue me). ?But I¡¯ve enjoyed Lower¡¯s Nebula twice with the 18-inch Dob using a PVS-14 white phosphor night vison device and a 7nm h-alpha filter atop a 50mm Russel Optics Plossl. It¡¯s quite obvious with this combination: ¡°large, bright, and annular with wispy extensions¡±. Not so very unlike Ian¡¯s photograph. (12/5/2021 and 9/18/2023) ? Ted BBAA southwest ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kent Blackwell via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2024 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BackBayAstro] Lowers Nebula? I've only suspected seeing Lower's Nebula once from Coinjock NC using my 25" Dobsonian: Lower's Nebula - Sh 2-261
(Bright Nebula in Orion)
Observed: Jan 19, 2014, 9:20:00 PM I could barely see some slight brightening as I moved the scope. The OIII filter didn't help.?
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I think I made a mistake reading people's observations of mars on Cloudy Nights.?
?
There were two objects that people reported being able to see visually in 8" to 10" scopes: "Olympus Mons" and the "Tharsis Montes" 3 Volcano Grouping.
Most of the time it seems they were just seeing clouds above those objects.
?
My question for the group:?
Has anyone ever seen any detail on mars visually other than the ice cap and albedo regions.
?
I don't expect I ever will but it would be interesting to know if it was really possible.
?
- Jonathan
?
?
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I've only suspected seeing Lower's Nebula once from Coinjock NC using my 25" Dobsonian:
?
Lower's Nebula - Sh 2-261
(Bright Nebula in Orion)
Observed: Jan 19, 2014, 9:20:00 PM
I could barely see some slight brightening as I moved the scope. The OIII filter didn't help.?
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January BBAA Meeting Location Change
Since TCC is closed for the holidays, our BBAA meeting this Thursday, January 2, 2025 will be held at the Kempsville Recreation Center on Monmouth Drive in Virginia Beach, 7:30 - 9:00 pm.
I don't know if it will be possible to record this meeting or have it on ZOOM, so you may want to plan to be present at the rec center.
George
George Reynolds
"Solar System Ambassador" for South Hampton Roads, Virginia
Back Bay Amateur Astronomers (BBAA)?
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On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 09:03:17 AM EST, Ian Stewart <ian@...> wrote:
I see a poodle face :-)
On 12/31/2024 8:50 AM, Jonathan Scheetz
wrote:
Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression
after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping
in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
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It was a good night last night. Dry and very transparent. Good transit of Europa across Jupiter. Terrible Mars seeing.
Oh and a very interesting observation. Around 8:30 or so a very very bright satellite went by Mars. I have never seen such a bright satellite. It was brighter than Mars (really) and quite gold colored. I assume it was the NASA solar sail. Nothing else would be that bright.
Good image as always Ian. Happy new years.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 08:37:48 AM EST, Ian Stewart via groups.io <swampcolliecoffee@...> wrote:
Last night was a perfect night for imaging. Cool temps, good transparency and seeing. Here is a few hours on a less well known nebula - Sh2-261 Lowers Nebula. I haven't photographed this in quite a few years.
Cheers
Ian
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I see a poodle face :-)
On 12/31/2024 8:50 AM, Jonathan Scheetz
wrote:
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Show quoted text
Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression
after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping
in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
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Great image Ian.? A good Rorschach test - my first impression after a couple of seconds was a cloud of two big lips swooping in for kiss.? I guess I'm just a romantic at heart.?
- Jonathan?
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Last night was a perfect night for imaging. Cool temps, good transparency and seeing. Here is a few hours on a less well known nebula - Sh2-261 Lowers Nebula. I haven't photographed this in quite a few years.
Cheers
Ian
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YRSP Tonight 28 Dec: No-go
Tonight is a No-go?... but [don't forget] there's always next Saturday Night for our?January Obs night.
Happy New Year, Troy
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Saturday 28 December AND Saturday 04 January: YRSP observing night
Our monthly scheduled observing session at??is this?Saturday Night, 28 December?¨C and in fact we¡¯ll have our January observing session on the following?Saturday ¨C 04 January?so please keep both dates in mind. Also, please ensure you read the ¡°New Note¡± (5 paragraphs below this one). ? Calendar Note:?if there is another event on the VPAS or Back Bay calendars, this is an?additional event?and it does not supersede nor replace any other event. ? Address:?9801 York River Park Rd, Williamsburg, VA 23188 Park Phone: 757-566-3036 Lat:?37.414639 Long:?-76.713562
GPS Coordinates:
37¡ã 24' 52.7004'' N ? ? 76¡ã 42' 48.8232'' W ? The public is invited & this event is posted on the YRSP Website calendar.?We ask that members of the public who are attending to please park in?designated visitor parking?& walk to the site so there is enough space for the amateur astronomers to transport & park next to their gear on the observing field.?After outreach, the amateur astronomers take over and we have YRSP to ourselves as long as we wish to observe. Using my SQM-L, the sky at YRSP is as dark as it can get in this area.? ? New Note ¨C please read:?This month will bring a couple of small changes to the normal protocol. The first obvious change is that I¡¯ve been told a Ranger will be on-hand during every outreach period. Another change is I will no longer ¡®hold¡¯ the padlock ¡ the gate will be?dummy-locked?by the departing duty Ranger so if anyone leaves early, you¡¯ll have to open the gate, (re)close it and (re)dummy-lock it?(just please do not lock the rest of us in). ? Observing Site: After entering the park (the entrance fee is waived for amateur astronomers), the participating amateur astronomers should drive to & enter the ¡®right¡¯ parking lot. At the back/riverside corner of the lot, take the ¡°No Admittance¡± gravel road/path (we are allowed to drive on it) to the observing site where you may park & unload.?If you notice public outreach attendees driving to the observing site, please help me police the area by re-directing them to the visitor parking lots. ? Due to the proximity of the river, be prepared to battle dew. Consider bringing a lightweight tarp to cover your eyepieces and other accessories on your observing table. Those who have scopes susceptible to dew, you will likely need a dew heater. ? We¡¯ll observe until we get tired. We¡¯ll start at sunset ¨C? ? Forecast Links:
? A Go/No Go will be posted on the VPAS & Back Bay Groups on Saturday AFTN NLT (no later than) 3:00 PM. ? Cheers. Troy
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Anyone else noticed that R Leporis is very faded this year
Hind's crimson star is definitely? not so crimson this year. This is the most faded I have seen in a couple of decades. Just an uninspiring yellow.
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Thought I should follow up to clarify.
On Saturday, December 21, 2024 at 08:17:14 AM EST, Ian Stewart <ian@...> wrote:
Thanks Mark - good suggestions.
On 12/21/2024 8:00 AM, jimcoble2000 via
groups.io wrote:
For anyone who might be new
to Mars I should clarify a few observations when talking about
Mars. Experienced folks may ignore this if you have looked at
Mars for some time.
When I say I saw places like
Hellas, Syrtis Major, or other places on Mars you can't expect
to see things with the detail you can on the moon. On the moon
you can see the actual structural features, much like a pen
and ink drawing. Mars is quite different. What you see there
are pastel shades of say an Impressionist painting (smeared by
seeing). No hard lines and certainly no craters and such. It
is just too small and far away. Astro photos can fool you when
you observe visually. They show detail unobtainable to the
human eye using amateur telescopes of moderate size. Mars maps
by say NASA are not much help either.
The trick is to find a map or
image that shows the general location on the planet of some
reflection (albedo) feature and what the colors look like at
the eyepiece. Good examples are the poles that stand out
easily because they are so reflective. But the Hellas Basin is
also light colored, big, and located at what could easily be
mistaken as a pole. So to observe Mars some homework is sort
of required. In large part the game is to figure out "what am
I seeing"?
Seeing is really important
here as it easily smears out subtle shadings. Filters are also
required to make out the subtle shadings. Know what to expect
prior to going to the eyepiece. Dress warm :)
But that's what makes Mars
observing fun. Don't get discouraged if you look and go "what
is he talking about"? Mars is worth the effort when you do get
the magic moment and you know what you are looking for. There
was a long line of very talented observers, with very big
telescopes, who spent their lives chasing this planet and
still didn't get it right but they had a heck of a trip.
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Jonathan Scheetz
Ted Forte
Kent Blackwell
Ian Stewart