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No, no, no, no !
There are LOTS of excellent reasons never to swap the
designations.
For cnc use especially.
There is tool tip compensation, tool wear compensation, css (very
very important), feed per rev, and so on, all of which are always
based on using std nomenclature for the axis.
There is a very easy way to remember the axis designations.
The lathe is a horizontal mill.
You stand at the TS and look towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you.
(Also known ass Right Hand Rule [follow the thumb]).
If you use other non std axis names, and ever get to use someone
eless, anyone elses setup, this can easily come back to bite you.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Might I suggest Gentlemen, that your choice of
X,Y,Z axes very much depends on the tools you use and
your own personal perspective.
If you
use a CAD package it might make more sense to
follow?the XY&Z perspective it offers.
If you
are a mathematician X would be Horizontal from left to
right?Y your Vertical (Up Down) and Z your other
horizontal of backwards and forwards.
I think
it all comes down to your own personal preference and
possibly the tool you use?
Ask any
mathematician why they use XY&Z and they will tell
you that they are just arbitrary values!
?
John
Kiely (IRL)
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cnc sales wrote.......There is a very easy way to remember the axis
designations. The lathe is a horizontal mill. You stand at the TS and look
towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards
you........
?
Correct and the reasons for keeping it standard. As
I mentioned earlier, it is easier to think of the axis in relation to the
workholder, as he outlined above. Then it doesn't matter what machine you are
using, we all talk the same language.
Cheers.
????????
Ellis
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Well I wasn't entirely disagreeing with you.
The emphatic No no no no, certainly stirred up some emotion.? (Big Smile)
But after following this thread of posts I can see now there seems to be a "standard"?
It also seems to follow the mathematical norm.
Now would someone mind telling/informing a few of the would be Autocad users?
However I thought the right hand rule was for electronics only? Lenz's Law?
Or did he borrow the term from the Mathematical community?
Thanks for the correction!
?
John Kiely (IRL)
From: cnc sales To: 7x12minilathe@... Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Axis designations
No, no, no, no !
There are LOTS of excellent reasons never to swap the designations.
For cnc use especially.
There is tool tip compensation, tool wear compensation, css (very very important), feed per rev, and so on, all of which are always based on using std nomenclature for the axis.
There is a very easy way to remember the axis designations.
The lathe is a horizontal mill.
You stand at the TS and look towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you.
(Also known ass Right Hand Rule [follow the thumb]).
If you use other non std axis names, and ever get to use someone eless, anyone elses setup, this can easily come back to bite you.
Might I suggest Gentlemen, that your choice of X,Y,Z axes very much depends on the tools you use and your own personal perspective.
If you use a CAD package it might make more sense to follow?the XY&Z perspective it offers.
If you are a mathematician X would be Horizontal from left to right?Y your Vertical (Up Down) and Z your other horizontal of backwards and forwards.
I think it all comes down to your own personal preference and possibly the tool you use?
Ask any mathematician why they use XY&Z and they will tell you that they are just arbitrary values!
?
John Kiely (IRL)
|
On 02/07/2013 02:01 AM, Ellis Cory wrote:
cnc sales wrote.......There is a very easy way to
remember the axis designations. The lathe is a horizontal
mill. You stand at the TS and look towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you........
I haven't used a CNC lathe, only mill but, what would you use the Y
axis for besides maybe tool compensation?
--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
Skype: jerrydurand
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Why not just "google" axis on a lathe, it shows several pictures of the axis pertaining to a lathe. That should satisfy most of you who are not familiar with them. Instead of having a debate on what is what or who is right or wrong.
A lathe is a lathe and should not be look at as something it is not. It is not a horizontal mill, its not a vertical mill, it's a lathe. Some vertical lathes (such a Bullard's) are made for specific purposes. They do work that cannot be done on conventional lathes due to size and or shape of the work.
Use machines for their intended purposes and all will be well. Use them for something else and...well, your on your own.
Now for some coffee, as Mert would say.
Frank MvF
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Jerry Durand wrote:
On 02/07/2013 02:01 AM, Ellis Cory wrote:
cnc sales wrote.......There is a very easy way to remember the axis
designations. The lathe is a horizontal mill. You stand at the TS and
look towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you........
I haven't used a CNC lathe, only mill but, what would you use the Y axis
for besides maybe tool compensation?
--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
Skype: jerrydurand
|
On 02/07/2013 09:32 AM, fmvf@... wrote: Why not just "google" axis on a lathe, it shows several pictures of the axis pertaining to a lathe. That should satisfy most of you who are not familiar with them. Instead of having a debate on what is what or who is right or wrong.
Ok, according to a quick read of There is NO Y axis. It's X, Z, and C. So, that answers the question in a round-about way that there's no axis to worry about. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand
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Jerry wrote......I haven't used a CNC lathe, only mill but, what would you
use the Y axis for besides maybe tool compensation?........
?
I was quoting cnc, in the same way I quoted you
above, so that other readers would know what I was referring to. Just because
there are 3 standard axis, doesn't mean that every machine tool uses them, in
the same way that modern CNC machining centres have 4, 5 or more axis. A
standard lathe only has 2 - X & Z. However, if a vertical slide is added to
enable milling, then that would be Y.
Cheers.
???????
Ellis
|
John,
The right hand rule, I believe, comes from the Cartesian system of coordinates.
Dick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., John Kiely wrote:
Well I wasn't entirely disagreeing with you.
The emphatic No no no no, certainly stirred up some emotion.? (Big Smile)
But after following this thread of posts I can see now there seems to be a "standard"?
It also seems to follow the mathematical norm.
Now would someone mind telling/informing a few of the would be Autocad users?
However I thought the right hand rule was for electronics only? Lenz's Law?
Or did he borrow the term from the Mathematical community?
Thanks for the correction!
?
John Kiely (IRL)
________________________________
From: cnc sales
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Axis designations
No, no, no, no !
There are LOTS of excellent reasons never to swap the designations.
For cnc use especially.
There is tool tip compensation, tool wear compensation, css (very very important), feed per rev, and so on, all of which are always based on using std nomenclature for the axis.
There is a very easy way to remember the axis designations.
The lathe is a horizontal mill.
You stand at the TS and look towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you.
(Also known ass Right Hand Rule [follow the thumb]).
If you use other non std axis names, and ever get to use someone eless, anyone elses setup, this can easily come back to bite you.
Might I suggest Gentlemen, that your choice of X,Y,Z axes very much depends on the tools you use and your own personal perspective.
If you use a CAD package it might make more sense to follow?the XY&Z perspective it offers.
If you are a mathematician X would be Horizontal from left to right?Y your Vertical (Up Down) and Z your other horizontal of backwards and forwards.
I think it all comes down to your own personal preference and possibly the tool you use?
Ask any mathematician why they use XY&Z and they will tell you that they are just arbitrary values!
?
John Kiely (IRL)
|
From HAAS lathes (nr 1 in sales in the
world) most lathes are available with a Y axis for extra $.
Likewise from anyone else.
Y is very common.
Today, in Europe, more lathes are sold (new) with Y axis than
without.
The Y axis is used for milling in the vertical plane, together
with the C axis (ie indexed spindle).
It is extremely useful for making keyways, bolt holes, flats, etc
etc
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
On 02/07/2013 02:01 AM, Ellis Cory wrote:
cnc sales wrote.......There is a very easy
way to remember the axis designations. The lathe is
a horizontal mill. You stand at the TS and look
towards the HS.
x is right, y is up, and z is towards you........
I haven't used a CNC lathe, only mill but, what would you
use the Y axis for besides maybe tool compensation?
--
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Well it seems that all this time I've had it wrong.? Fortunately, I've never discussed this with anyone so it's my secret.? How it came to pass I'm not sure but my X Y&Z has always been to me that X is left right, Y is front to back (milling machine) and Z is vertical.? It seemed to make sense to me so I've adapted this.? Not being a math genius or a CAD operator or working with anyone else equipment? or drawings I don't see any problem.? I have seen the "follow the thumb" rule but that has always been associated with electricity.? Tell me if I should change my thinking. Warren
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Warren wrote........Tell me if I should change my
thinking......
?
No, you are correct for a milling machine. The
problem comes with so many layouts of modern CNC maching centres. That is why
the workholding arrangement was chosen as the point of reference.
Cheers.
????????
Ellis
|
Ellis,
It is not the work holding arrangement but the "main spindle axis" which determines the x axis.
Dick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" wrote:
Warren wrote........Tell me if I should change my thinking......
No, you are correct for a milling machine. The problem comes with so many layouts of modern CNC maching centres. That is why the workholding arrangement was chosen as the point of reference.
Cheers.
Ellis
|
Hi Dick,
Now you are really confusing me. In message 69578 you said the on a lathe the Z axis was the long axis parallel to the lathe bed and also the spindle axis.
Now you tell me that the spindle axis determine the x axis.
Which is correct.
Mike
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Show quoted text
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Dick" wrote:
Ellis,
It is not the work holding arrangement but the "main spindle axis" which determines the x axis.
Dick
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" wrote:
Warren wrote........Tell me if I should change my thinking......
No, you are correct for a milling machine. The problem comes with so many layouts of modern CNC maching centres. That is why the workholding arrangement was chosen as the point of reference.
Cheers.
Ellis
|
Mike,
My error! I meant "z axis".
Thanks for the correction.
Dick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "drmico60" wrote:
Hi Dick,
Now you are really confusing me. In message 69578 you said the on a lathe the Z axis was the long axis parallel to the lathe bed and also the spindle axis.
Now you tell me that the spindle axis determine the x axis.
Which is correct.
Mike
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Dick" wrote:
Ellis,
It is not the work holding arrangement but the "main spindle axis" which determines the x axis.
Dick
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" wrote:
Warren wrote........Tell me if I should change my thinking......
No, you are correct for a milling machine. The problem comes with so many layouts of modern CNC maching centres. That is why the workholding arrangement was chosen as the point of reference.
Cheers.
Ellis
|
Mike wrote.......Now you are really confusing
me.......
?
Yes and me too. I was?taught many years ago at
college and confirmed later by a manufacturer, that all axis relate to the
workholder. Consider the lathe, the spindle axis holds the work. Now a vertical
milling machine, the spindle holds the cutting tool, but so does a horizontal
milling machine and the spindle is parallel to the bed!? Never mind slant
bed machines, multi-axis machining centres etc. So the Z axis move towards
and/or away from the workholder. The X & Y axis move across the workholder
at right angles to each other. Not all 3 need to be used eg centre lathe and
some machines have 4 or more axis eg multi-spindle machining centres. However,
as we are not all professional machining companies, we don't need to get our
knickers in a twist over it.
Cheers.
???????
Ellis
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On Friday, February 08, 2013 03:06:17 am you wrote: Tell me if I should change my thinking.
Warren you know your machine so you're OK if you work with more than one brand or type of machine the axis designations break down fairly quickly ,they usually try to stay close to 'the book' for them but not always so it comes down to knowing the quirks of the machine you're working on I work on a couple mill/turns where the Y axis is mirrored ,it makes perfect sense when you stand at the machine but most cad/cam programs will give you upside down code (or is it backwards?) on another they folded them over ,everything on the main spindle is right but the sub spindle is all wrong ,until you get used to it you need a map at the machine just to make offset adjustments and another to figure out the error messages ,if the X2 axis has a problem it shows up as U1 never could stand that machine Brian -- Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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