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Moments of Terror in Machining
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I was sharpening some tools on my 6" Chinese (Homier) grinder today when I started to smell something a little funny but I continue working. After about 10 minutes, I notice that the grinder is getting hot so I go to get my infrared thermometer.
In the next few minutes, I watched the grinder go from 130 to over 180 degrees Fahrenheit. I turned it off. Just to get a complete picture I took off the wheels and turned the grinder on with no load. Within 5 minutes, the temperature was over 200 degrees. This is where I chickened out and reached to turn it off, but I saw a wisp of smoke coming from the grinder. This grinder cannot have more than a few hours on it at most. I only purchased it about 2 years ago and it's ground maybe a dozen lathe tools. It was cheap so I don't mind the money so much, but the thought if this had been a motor on a band saw or other tool that is more automated, the resulting fire would be very bad. So one more example of being careful of the ratings on the Chinese motors. Kevin |
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And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for a new grinder :-)
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Is Baldor the ONLY company not sourcing their grinders from China or Taiwan? I know Craftsman, DeWalt (B&D), and the others have moved production overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. So this may be a little off topic, but I'd love to hear comments about the different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the different brands. Obviously, I'd love a Baldor, but starting at over $500 retail it's kind of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! Kevin --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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I purchased a grinder from HF a long time ago when quality was an unknown word "there" (across the ocean). The grinder suffered similar symptoms, using it for 5 minutes it would get too hot to touch. I stopped using it and made a grinder from an old pump motor (C-flange) and a set of pillow block bearings mounted on a piece of channel 6" wide X 1/4" thick. This set up lasted me almost 22 years but finally had to retire it because the internal wiring, not the windings, got so brittle the insulation started to crack in several places.
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I recently purchased another one from HF and I'm happy to report that I can use it for about 30 minutes before it gets too hot. They're not too much different from what my first one was, just a little better. Quality grinders cost way too much for us to justify buying one. Frank. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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I have a cheap one I got from Cummins Tools back when they'd drive
a couple of semi trucks to various places. I can sharpen a HSS bit on it but it doesn't hold its speed very well. My neighbor has a Delta that won't slow down unless you shut it off, I imagine a heavy enough piece of steel will slow it down but not that I've found yet. At the day job we have one (dunno what brand) that runs on 480 3 phase and has a build in dust collector. I don't imagine you can easily slow that one down. As far as balance and things like that, the only problem my cheap one has is cheap wheels. Until I built a vibrating table for doing ceramic mold stuff, when I poured a mold I'd start the grinder and put the mold on the motor to bust up the air bubbles. It got alot better after I dressed the wheels. On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, Kevin wrote: And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for a new grinder :-) Vince. -- Michigan VHF Corp. |
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You might have to get more active than watching Craigslist. Go to flea markets, garage/yard sales, etc. My dad picked up a few quality grinders that way and he's not even looking, just could not walk away because of how cheap the price was. Granted, they are not Baldors, but MIA (made in America) Craftsman's and Delta's and I am not sure what else. As someone else said, you can always make your own with pillow blocks and shafting and a separate motor via belt drive, though if you go that route, I would suggest going to a 10" wheel.
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Paul --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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If it were me, I'd place it outside away from the house or shop, hook it up to extension cords and see if it actually catches fire. :) But I am a bit of a pyromanic. :)
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Paul --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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MERTON B BAKER
My problem with overseas grinders are First, the two I've bought take
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nearly a full minute to get up to speed, and nearly ten seconds to stop under load, grinding toolbits. Second the wheels are so far out of balance, that they would hp around on the floor, didn't dare run 'em up on the bench for fear they'd fall off. With no wheels on, there was still a little tendency to walk around. -----Original Message-----
From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of fmvf@... Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:04 AM To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining I purchased a grinder from HF a long time ago when quality was an unknown word "there" (across the ocean). The grinder suffered similar symptoms, using it for 5 minutes it would get too hot to touch. I stopped using it and made a grinder from an old pump motor (C-flange) and a set of pillow block bearings mounted on a piece of channel 6" wide X 1/4" thick. This set up lasted me almost 22 years but finally had to retire it because the internal wiring, not the windings, got so brittle the insulation started to crack in several places. I recently purchased another one from HF and I'm happy to report that I can use it for about 30 minutes before it gets too hot. They're not too much different from what my first one was, just a little better. Quality grinders cost way too much for us to justify buying one. Frank. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote: new grinder :-) Taiwan? overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the different brands. of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! I started to smell something a little funny but I continue working. After about 10 minutes, I notice that the grinder is getting hot so I go to get my infrared thermometer. degrees Fahrenheit. I turned it off. grinder on with no load. Within 5 minutes, the temperature was over 200 degrees. This is where I chickened out and reached to turn it off, but I saw a wisp of smoke coming from the grinder. purchased it about 2 years ago and it's ground maybe a dozen lathe tools. had been a motor on a band saw or other tool that is more automated, the resulting fire would be very bad. motors.
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i have the hf tool grinder - about 175 with coupon. i bought a diamond wheel on sale at enco for 65. so have a good setup. tubelcain has a good youtube video on sharpening drill bits. I have used it for sharpening carbide bits - works very good. The wheel is so true you dont know its on when turning at 3000. jb
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On Oct 6, 2011, at 10:07 AM, "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
I was sharpening some tools on my 6" Chinese (Homier) grinder today when I started to smell something a little funny but I continue working. After about 10 minutes, I notice that the grinder is getting hot so I go to get my infrared thermometer. |
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Mark Cason
On 10/06/2011 09:13 AM, Kevin wrote:
I had that same grinder, and it lasted me about 10 minutes. The first second I started it up, I knew something was wrong, as the wheels would not run true. I tried truing them up, but the motor burnt up before I could finish. I bought another one, more expensive than the first, and it was almost as bad. The wheels were warped, and the bearings weren't true, and one bearing was far worse than the other, so the shaft would turn in an ellipse. Nothing can be done about that, except replace the bearings, which would've cost more than what I spent on the grinder in the first place, and I would've still have to replace the wheels. I now have a 10" Wilton Grinder that I bought from a local tool shop. Even on sale, it was expensive, but well worth it. It runs as smooth as silk. Out of the box, it had very little vibration, and after taking a small cleanup pass with a diamond dresser, it ran even better. I haven't found anything that would bog the motor down, even with some fairly aggressive grinding. The grinder was made in Taiwan, not China, so the level of craftsmanship it just a tad better. -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto |
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Film at 11!
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--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Paul" <paul_probus@...> wrote:
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--- On Thu, 10/6/11, Mark Cason wrote:
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Ray Kornele
The problem was, likely, not due to faulty ratings, but, faulty workmanship- IOW, it was a cheap piece of Chinese junk(not the boat).China build cheap tools. That's why they are cheap.
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I use mostly cheap tools from China, Japan, Korea... I prefer the Japanese ones. KrazyKyngeKorny (Krazy, not stupid) On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Kevin <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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My guess is that despite all coming from China, the final quality (hopefully) is different and dependant on the spec put to the factory.
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I have a grinder with a label carrying a well known UK brand. Unfortunately that is where the quality ends. The wheels are not in balance, can't get them to balance either. Soon it will be look for another but better, maybe even second hand might be better. Kind regards, David Wiseman Sent from my BlackBerry mobile phone -----Original Message-----
From: "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> Sender: 7x12minilathe@... Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 14:13:12 To: <7x12minilathe@...> Reply-To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for a new grinder :-) Is Baldor the ONLY company not sourcing their grinders from China or Taiwan? I know Craftsman, DeWalt (B&D), and the others have moved production overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. So this may be a little off topic, but I'd love to hear comments about the different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the different brands. Obviously, I'd love a Baldor, but starting at over $500 retail it's kind of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! Kevin --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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Mert
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I can. Only agree with you, my grinder is bolted down on a shelf, still tries to take the shelf off the wall. Kind regards, David Wiseman Sent from my BlackBerry mobile phone -----Original Message-----
From: "MERTON B BAKER" <mertbaker@...> Sender: 7x12minilathe@... Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:32:39 To: <7x12minilathe@...> Reply-To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: RE: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining My problem with overseas grinders are First, the two I've bought take nearly a full minute to get up to speed, and nearly ten seconds to stop under load, grinding toolbits. Second the wheels are so far out of balance, that they would hp around on the floor, didn't dare run 'em up on the bench for fear they'd fall off. With no wheels on, there was still a little tendency to walk around. -----Original Message----- From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of fmvf@... Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:04 AM To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining I purchased a grinder from HF a long time ago when quality was an unknown word "there" (across the ocean). The grinder suffered similar symptoms, using it for 5 minutes it would get too hot to touch. I stopped using it and made a grinder from an old pump motor (C-flange) and a set of pillow block bearings mounted on a piece of channel 6" wide X 1/4" thick. This set up lasted me almost 22 years but finally had to retire it because the internal wiring, not the windings, got so brittle the insulation started to crack in several places. I recently purchased another one from HF and I'm happy to report that I can use it for about 30 minutes before it gets too hot. They're not too much different from what my first one was, just a little better. Quality grinders cost way too much for us to justify buying one. Frank. --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote: new grinder :-) Taiwan? overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the different brands. of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! I started to smell something a little funny but I continue working. After about 10 minutes, I notice that the grinder is getting hot so I go to get my infrared thermometer. degrees Fahrenheit. I turned it off. grinder on with no load. Within 5 minutes, the temperature was over 200 degrees. This is where I chickened out and reached to turn it off, but I saw a wisp of smoke coming from the grinder. purchased it about 2 years ago and it's ground maybe a dozen lathe tools. had been a motor on a band saw or other tool that is more automated, the resulting fire would be very bad. motors.
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MERTON B BAKER
The nice thing about Sears tooling, is if it heats up and smokes, or vibrates off the table, you can return it and try the replacement in the store. The Chinese ones I had the bad luck with were from Tools Now. In this shop, It's name has been changed to Tools Never.
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Mert -----Original Message-----
From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of warren hughes Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 2:44 PM To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining Have two craftsman's and both have been good the newest one did have a sticky switch problem but apron inspetion there seemed to be some grinding dust getting in. i cleaned out the switch area and sealed it with some silicon. it has been flawless ever since. Warren --- On Thu, 10/6/11, Mark Cason <farmerboy1967@...> wrote: From: Mark Cason <farmerboy1967@...> Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining To: 7x12minilathe@... Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 11:42 AM On 10/06/2011 09:13 AM, Kevin wrote: > > And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for > a new grinder :-) > > Is Baldor the ONLY company not sourcing their grinders from China or > Taiwan? > > I know Craftsman, DeWalt (B&D), and the others have moved production > overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and > especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. > > So this may be a little off topic, but I'd love to hear comments about > the different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the > different brands. > > Obviously, I'd love a Baldor, but starting at over $500 retail it's > kind of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on > the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! > > Kevin > I had that same grinder, and it lasted me about 10 minutes. The first second I started it up, I knew something was wrong, as the wheels would not run true. I tried truing them up, but the motor burnt up before I could finish. I bought another one, more expensive than the first, and it was almost as bad. The wheels were warped, and the bearings weren't true, and one bearing was far worse than the other, so the shaft would turn in an ellipse. Nothing can be done about that, except replace the bearings, which would've cost more than what I spent on the grinder in the first place, and I would've still have to replace the wheels. I now have a 10" Wilton Grinder that I bought from a local tool shop. Even on sale, it was expensive, but well worth it. It runs as smooth as silk. Out of the box, it had very little vibration, and after taking a small cleanup pass with a diamond dresser, it ran even better. I haven't found anything that would bog the motor down, even with some fairly aggressive grinding. The grinder was made in Taiwan, not China, so the level of craftsmanship it just a tad better. -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto |
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MERTON B BAKER
My workhorse toolbit grinder is a 1/2HP 6" Delta that I won in a raffle at a
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shop teacher convention in 1954. The cord burned off in the fire I had here in 1975, but I replaced the cord, and it's still going strong. Worn out 4 sets of wheels, I think. There is something to be said for "Made in USA", at least for stuff from firms that have been around for a while. Mert -----Original Message-----
From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of Vince Vielhaber Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:05 AM To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining I have a cheap one I got from Cummins Tools back when they'd drive a couple of semi trucks to various places. I can sharpen a HSS bit on it but it doesn't hold its speed very well. My neighbor has a Delta that won't slow down unless you shut it off, I imagine a heavy enough piece of steel will slow it down but not that I've found yet. At the day job we have one (dunno what brand) that runs on 480 3 phase and has a build in dust collector. I don't imagine you can easily slow that one down. As far as balance and things like that, the only problem my cheap one has is cheap wheels. Until I built a vibrating table for doing ceramic mold stuff, when I poured a mold I'd start the grinder and put the mold on the motor to bust up the air bubbles. It got alot better after I dressed the wheels. On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, Kevin wrote: And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for anew grinder :-) Taiwan? overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the different brands. of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! I started to smell something a little funny but I continue working. After about 10 minutes, I notice that the grinder is getting hot so I go to get my infrared thermometer. degrees Fahrenheit. I turned it off. grinder on with no load. Within 5 minutes, the temperature was over 200 degrees. This is where I chickened out and reached to turn it off, but I saw a wisp of smoke coming from the grinder. purchased it about 2 years ago and it's ground maybe a dozen lathe tools. had been a motor on a band saw or other tool that is more automated, the resulting fire would be very bad. motors.
Vince. -- Michigan VHF Corp. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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John Mattis
I got a 1HP Craftsman grinder on sale a few years back for $100. Works great with no problems. Good grinding wheels are manditory. John From: MERTON B BAKER To: 7x12minilathe@... Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 1:31 PM Subject: RE: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining
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The nice thing about Sears tooling, is if it heats up and smokes, or vibrates off the table, you can return it and try the replacement in the store. The Chinese ones I had the bad luck with were from Tools Now. In this shop, It's name has been changed to Tools Never.
Mert -----Original Message----- From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]On Behalf Of warren hughes Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 2:44 PM To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining Have two craftsman's and both have been good the newest one did have a sticky switch problem but apron inspetion there seemed to be some grinding dust getting in. i cleaned out the switch area and sealed it with some silicon. it has been flawless ever since. Warren --- On Thu, 10/6/11, Mark Cason <farmerboy1967@...> wrote: From: Mark Cason <farmerboy1967@...> Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Moments of Terror in Machining To: 7x12minilathe@... Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 11:42 AM On 10/06/2011 09:13 AM, Kevin wrote: > > And to follow up. I did some research since I'm now in the market for > a new grinder :-) > > Is Baldor the ONLY company not sourcing their grinders from China or > Taiwan? > > I know Craftsman, DeWalt (B&D), and the others have moved production > overseas, but I was surprised that Delta, Rockwell, Porter-Cable, and > especially Palmgren all seem to be using Chinese factories. > > So this may be a little off topic, but I'd love to hear comments about > the different grinders and people's thoughts, experiences with the > different brands. > > Obviously, I'd love a Baldor, but starting at over $500 retail it's > kind of tough to justify spending as much on the grinder as I did on > the lathe. :-) And yes, I'm checking craigslist! > > Kevin > I had that same grinder, and it lasted me about 10 minutes. The first second I started it up, I knew something was wrong, as the wheels would not run true. I tried truing them up, but the motor burnt up before I could finish. I bought another one, more expensive than the first, and it was almost as bad. The wheels were warped, and the bearings weren't true, and one bearing was far worse than the other, so the shaft would turn in an ellipse. Nothing can be done about that, except replace the bearings, which would've cost more than what I spent on the grinder in the first place, and I would've still have to replace the wheels. I now have a 10" Wilton Grinder that I bought from a local tool shop. Even on sale, it was expensive, but well worth it. It runs as smooth as silk. Out of the box, it had very little vibration, and after taking a small cleanup pass with a diamond dresser, it ran even better. I haven't found anything that would bog the motor down, even with some fairly aggressive grinding. The grinder was made in Taiwan, not China, so the level of craftsmanship it just a tad better. -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto |
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My grinder is an Aldi's cheapy, the Taurus brand. When I got it I knew
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the first thing would be is check the bolts and wheels before turning it on. Let it run for 15 minutes on its own so if the wheels are cracked they would let go when I was not sitting in front of it. Then dress the wheels. This improved balance.... a little. The left (coarse wheel) was replaced with a white one. What a difference in cutting performance and balance compared to the original wheel. I have tried making new bushes and thrust plates for it but the wheels do not run true. At least the vibration has improved significantly The motor is rated at 170 Watts and is to hot to touch after 30 minutes of hard grinding. The motor in under-powered and I have to live with that. This is a hobby so I am OK in taking a break for a cuppa while it cools. Cheers, Andrew in Melbourne On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 12:32 -0400, MERTON B BAKER wrote:
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my hf tool grinder has zero tendency to walk. I just placed it on a table and it has no vibration.
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here's my advice on buying cheap chinese: Go to Harbor Freight online and READ THE REVIEWS. In truth, Chinese stuff is a mixture of good and bad. HF has EXCELLENT stuff, if you READ THE REVIEWS. The magnifying swing arm lamp is a great bargain at $25 now. JB On Oct 6, 2011, at 3:48 PM, "David Wiseman" <david@...> wrote:
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mattdbartlett
Shop around. You can get one (new) for much less than $500
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-Matt --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Kevin" <kcc-groups@...> wrote:
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