Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
If you were starting now, USB interface! Maybe Bluetooth or WiFi but
they're mostly more trouble than needed. I have USB running one mill
with Mach3 and I have a USBCNC board for the other mill.
Toss the idea of flipping bits on a parallel port into the same
dumpster that all the computers with parallel ports are in.??? I know,
you can buy a used old machine on eBay.??? Do you REALLY want to tell
your customers that your snazzy CNC device won't work with a single
modern computer?
On 07/28/2017 02:56 PM, 'Michael
Jablonski' michaeljab@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
???
???
I have forgotten much,
if not almost all, of my hardware design and software
programming. If I were to ever attempt to CNC any machine I
would have to bring myself back up to date on this, which
would mean starting all over again.
--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.
tel: +1 408 356-3886
@DurandInterstel
|
I have to agree. Hobby Machinist is classy site. Respectfully, Les ---In 7x12minilathe@..., <old_toolmaker@...> wrote : I forgot to mention in my last post, Hobby Machinist allows pictures to be easily placed within each message and show up as thumbnails, not text links. That is a plus as we can visualy decided what we want to enlarge for a better view. I am very impressed.
Dick
|
? Set the height by raising the head, not by lowering it. This removes a lot of backlash in the fine feed. Same principal as raising a saw blade to exact height on a cabinet saw. Also if you are using an end mill holder, make sure the cutter is pulled down to the top of the cutters flat portion. This prevents the cutter from being pulled down into the work. mike Sent from for Windows 10 ?
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
I know we are running a bit off topic with this thread, but
I'll throw in my two cents.
?
MS-DOS was very good and relatively easy?for controlling
anything and everything because it allowed you take control of everything. Most
of the time only one application was running at a time so you could take control
of the hardware and software interrupts without much problems. The problems came
when TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) started making the scene.? We all
remember Borland's Sidekick. These were programs that you'd load and they would
run in the background, then you could pop them up at any time with the use of
HotKeys. They had a bad habit of taking control of so many interrupts they
interfered with the main program trying to run.
?
I have forgotten much, if not almost all, of my hardware
design and software programming. If I were to ever attempt to CNC any machine I
would have to bring myself back up to date on this, which would mean starting
all over again.
Michael - California, USA
Micro-Mark
MicroLux 7x16
LMS 3990 Hi-Torque Mill with power feed
?
From:
7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 11:34 AM
To:
7x12minilathe@...
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] CNCZEUS is
now Open source
?
Yeah, there's definitely a whole
'nother language when programmers start talking to each other.
??
Basically it means that MS-DOS exposes
the most low-level hardware functions of the computer to any program that wants
to control them. ?Sending pulses to a CNC system requires very fine control
of timing of the output ports (by means of "interrupts"). This direct control
afforded by DOS is an advantage for CNC. ?But it's also DOS's
downfall--it's almost impossible to prevent software from freezing or crashing
the whole system if it's badly or m aliciously written. Anyone who was using DOS
back at the beginning remembers having to reboot frequently to recover from
crashes.
Windows, on the other hand
(especially early versions), is software that runs "on top" of DOS--sort of a
fly-by-wire system where the software doesn't directly control the hardware, but
it talks to another layer of software that talks to the ports. ?Windows is
a multitasking system (unlike DOS which is single tasking only), so other
programs might be in competition for those same ports. ?It also uses a lot
of processing power for ?the Windows graphical interface, keeping track of
mouse movements, etc. ?All of this makes timing those pulses to output
ports very tricky, especially on slower machines, so Windows CNC programs tended
to have problems with skipped steps, delayed pulses, etc. ?
Bottom line, the things
that make Windows a more versatile system for most kinds of software make it
really bad at CNC control; and the things that make DOS clunky and insecure for
other kinds of software makes it not so bad at CNC control.
The later versions of
Windows (and faster hardware) have improved things quite a bit. ?Starting
with Windows NT and (I think) Windows 8, it was no longer overlaid on DOS. But
there are still a few layers of software and drivers between the user interface
and the low-level hardware, and it still is a multitasking system. ?It
takes some skilled programming to get fast, accurately timed pulses to the
output ports.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: "'Ellis Cory'
ellis103@... [7x12minilathe]"
<7x12minilathe@...>
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017
2:02 PM
Subject: RE:
[7x12minilathe] CNCZEUS is now Open source
?
One of the problems may be that a lot
of us on here speak English (well I do) and the message below makes no sense
?
Rgds.
????????
Ellis
?
?
I see that it runs on MS-DOS. ? At first
this might seem primitive. ? But if you have ever written any DOS software
what's going on is your software runs on "bare metal". ? To use more modern
terms, MS-DOS simply loads the software then runs it allowing complete root
level access to the entire PC. ? There is not scheduler and OS to deal
with. ??
To say this again on LinuxCNC terms, every
MS-DOS program is in effect a real-time HAL module. ? ?
Yes it is primitive as it uses a full up Intel
X86 as it it wh ere a micro controller with no OS. ? But that might not be
a bad thing for this application.
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
Ok Ellis, I speak American, not English 8-) and it still makes
little sense in the machinist's world....
At the risk of getting stomped all into the dirt, I'm going to
attempt an 'Engl-erican' translation that, hopefully, will extract
the salient points, and allow the author to straighten it out if I
blow it....? I think Chris authored it...? Beat me up if I mess
this up Chris... (on or offline)
In the US, those applications that run on MS-DOS are considered a
bit barbaric and lacking in sophistication.? The one thing that
Chris and I do differ on is that MS-DOS is pretty much the
original operating system for the Intel X series up through early
Pentiums.? Windows is only an operating system in that it has a
kernel that provides the operating system basic instruction set to
the hardware (ironically, based on the original MS-DOS calls) with
what use to be a GUI application (early Windows) now permanently
attached to that kernel.
For those who are still awake, hang in there - here it
comes......What this means to us in the machinist community, there
are all kinds of schedulers and other Windows related tasks,
securities, and other decisions that Windows is making at our
expense in time, computer complexity, required memory and just
plain distractions for the little brain that is inside the chip.
Linux still permits the separation of those overhead components
as does original DOS applications (Microsoft or otherwise).? It
wont do fancy things like threading a bolt while receiving email
because you are watching YouTube on your wireless network, but if
left to it's own devises and without the other distractions, it
will run those threads on that bolt faster, better, and with less
computer overhead (processor power, memory, disk space, and on and
on).
This "bare-iron" approach would actually be the functional block
equivalent of a dedicated microprocessor doing nothing but running
the machine, but with a more complex operating system and a few
basic things like one could run a mill and a lathe from the same
computer, but would not be able to without a program reload on a
dedicated micro-controller system.
This is the principle called 'Domestic Survival Rule 1' if your
mate is doing what you want them to, do not distract them.....? If
you want an error free job on that thread, Dont suggest they go
watch television at the same time.
This 'keep it simple' principle will make a huge difference if
you move from a complex platform down to 'bare iron.'? Once done,
it is very hard to go back.
Warren L
On 7/28/2017 2:02 PM, 'Ellis Cory'
ellis103@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
One of the
problems may be that a lot of us on here speak English
(well I do) and the message below makes no sense ?
Rgds.
???????? Ellis
?
?
?
I see that it runs on
MS-DOS. ? At first this might seem primitive.
? But if you have ever written any DOS
software what's going on is your software runs
on "bare metal". ? To use more modern terms,
MS-DOS simply loads the software then runs it
allowing complete root level access to the
entire PC. ? There is not scheduler and OS to
deal with. ??
To say this again on
LinuxCNC terms, every MS-DOS program is in
effect a real-time HAL module. ? ?
Yes it is primitive as it
uses a full up Intel X86 as it it where a
micro controller with no OS. ? But that might
not be a bad thing for this application.
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
Yeah, there's definitely a whole 'nother language when programmers start talking to each other. ??
Basically it means that MS-DOS exposes the most low-level hardware functions of the computer to any program that wants to control them. ?Sending pulses to a CNC system requires very fine control of timing of the output ports (by means of "interrupts"). This direct control afforded by DOS is an advantage for CNC. ?But it's also DOS's downfall--it's almost impossible to prevent software from freezing or crashing the whole system if it's badly or maliciously written. Anyone who was using DOS back at the beginning remembers having to reboot frequently to recover from crashes.
Windows, on the other hand (especially early versions), is software that runs "on top" of DOS--sort of a fly-by-wire system where the software doesn't directly control the hardware, but it talks to another layer of software that talks to the ports. ?Windows is a multitasking system (unlike DOS which is single tasking only), so other programs might be in competition for those same ports. ?It also uses a lot of processing power for ?the Windows graphical interface, keeping track of mouse movements, etc. ?All of this makes timing those pulses to output ports very tricky, especially on slower machines, so Windows CNC programs tended to have problems with skipped steps, delayed pulses, etc. ?
Bottom line, the things that make Windows a more versatile system for most kinds of software make it really bad at CNC control; and the things that make DOS clunky and insecure for other kinds of software makes it not so bad at CNC control.
The later versions of Windows (and faster hardware) have improved things quite a bit. ?Starting with Windows NT and (I think) Windows 8, it was no longer overlaid on DOS. But there are still a few layers of software and drivers between the user interface and the low-level hardware, and it still is a multitasking system. ?It takes some skilled programming to get fast, accurately timed pulses to the output ports.
From: "'Ellis Cory' ellis103@... [7x12minilathe]" <7x12minilathe@...>
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: [7x12minilathe] CNCZEUS is now Open source
?
One of the problems may be that a lot of us on here speak English (well I do) and the message below makes no sense ? Rgds. ???????? Ellis ? ? ? I see that it runs on MS-DOS. ? At first this might seem primitive. ? But if you have ever written any DOS software what's going on is your software runs on "bare metal". ? To use more modern terms, MS-DOS simply loads the software then runs it allowing complete root level access to the entire PC. ? There is not scheduler and OS to deal with. ?? To say this again on LinuxCNC terms, every MS-DOS program is in effect a real-time HAL module. ? ? Yes it is primitive as it uses a full up Intel X86 as it it where a micro controller with no OS. ? But that might not be a bad thing for this application.
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
One of the problems may be that a lot of us on here speak English (well I do) and the message below makes no sense ? Rgds. ???????? Ellis ? ? ? I see that it runs on MS-DOS. ? At first this might seem primitive. ? But if you have ever written any DOS software what's going on is your software runs on "bare metal". ? To use more modern terms, MS-DOS simply loads the software then runs it allowing complete root level access to the entire PC. ? There is not scheduler and OS to deal with. ?? To say this again on LinuxCNC terms, every MS-DOS program is in effect a real-time HAL module. ? ? Yes it is primitive as it uses a full up Intel X86 as it it where a micro controller with no OS. ? But that might not be a bad thing for this application.
|
|
|
I forgot to mention in my last post, Hobby Machinist allows pictures to be easily placed within each message and show up as thumbnails, not text links. That is a plus as we can visualy decided what we want to enlarge for a better view. I am very impressed.
Dick
|
My favorite machining website is Hobby Machinist. I have been a member for a while and really like it. The members are very kind and respectful of one another and that is part of the code of conduct. It is very easy to get knowledgeable answers and there is a section for beginners. Subject matter discussed is categorized making it easier to zero in on the area you want. There seems to be a moderator involved in the discussion quite often. This is definitely top shelf. Very organized and also has a premium content for a membership fee. Yahoo groups activity levels eb and flow and sometimes no activity at all for months.
Dick
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
I've written code that runs bare metal under Windows. You just don't
ask permission for things, you capture interrupts you need and keep
Windows out of your hair.
Will that work on modern versions of Windows that are based on NT? ? I think it should cause a privileged instruction trap. ?
|
Oh, the spammers are still around, but originally the files section was handy because hosting your own files or photos wasn¡¯t easy.
These days it¡¯s trivial to provide a link to Dropbox or Google or whatever, it¡¯s certainly easier than trying to log into Yahoo and futz about trying to get the photo to upload.
At this point I think the files section should be for ¡®historically interesting¡¯ stuff, like manuals and dimensioned drawing etc, not random bit of metal people are working on as what prompted this thread. Sure if they upload it here it¡¯ll get cleaned up in the future¡
Here¡¯s some lamps I made my nieces a couple of years back: , . Easier to paste those links than deal with Yahoo, and not the sort of thing I want in Files anyway.
Tony
(Dinosaurs and Frozen. Each to their own, I guess.)
(Was also a Peppa Pig one. USB powered LED. The flower on top projects onto the ceiling ¨C an accidental feature.)
(The ¡®scrap¡¯ from the flowers became a necklace: as modelled by ¡®Bruce¡¯ the moai and Sally the dog.)
From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]
Sent: Friday, 28 July 2017 12:43 AM
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Pics and files
Agree ! Bring on the moot point! Yahoo groups are today a ghost of what they once were, they are no longer the focus of spammers as they once were. Precisely my point. We are still defending a position that has not been under (significant) attack for quite a while... need to look at present reality instead of clinging to old fears.
This group's longevity is peculiar in that the subject matter makes it specific to older folks, enhanced resistance to change. Ever wonder what this group's median age would be? Not that I'm suggesting a poll.
Yahoo files only require membership if the group is not set to public, which Pics-n-files is, no sweat there.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 1:22 AM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote:
Moving into this century by unrestricting files is a bit of a moot point these days, over 90% of the groups I¡¯m a member of are dead, some for many years.
It¡¯s less hassle to host files yourself (not on Photobucket obviously), and as a bonus you can share that link with anyone, Yahoo files usually require membership to access them.
I¡¯m surprised these groups even exist (I remember when it was eGroups!).
Some folk are surprised even Yahoo still exists.
Tony
From: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]
Sent: Thursday, 27 July 2017 3:02 PM
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Pics and files
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 8:37 PM, roylowenthal@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote:
They're available through a moderator.
Yes, that's exactly the problem, they're available but they're not, and let alone when a member actually needs it.
That was a deliberate decision to avoid the problems the 7x10 group had with unmoderated access. At the time, Yahoo had file size limits,
That was then, could we possibly move into THIS century?
making it logical to avoid permanently using a finite resource for transient items.
So at present, the available but not really available finite resource is woefully underused at 3.5% . Yup, the unused part DOES seem pretty infinite at this rate.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
Jerry,
A quick search for Windows interrupts revealed a substantial number of them.? How is is possible to determine which of them you need to reserve for your own purposes?? It looks to me like it would be awfully easy to get Windows to just seize up, particularly if you are re-allocating resources to homebrew code that does not handle errors well.? Good error handling, in my experience, is the very devil to do well.
Mark
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
I've written code that runs bare metal under Windows. You just don't
ask permission for things, you capture interrupts you need and keep
Windows out of your hair.
I see that it runs on MS-DOS. ? At first this might seem
primitive. ? But if you have ever written any DOS software
what's going on is your software runs on "bare metal". ? To
use more modern terms, MS-DOS simply loads the software then
runs it allowing complete root level access to the entire PC.
? There is not scheduler and OS to deal with. ??
To say this again on LinuxCNC terms, every MS-DOS program
is in effect a real-time HAL module. ? ?
Yes it is primitive as it uses a full up Intel X86 as it it
where a micro controller with no OS. ? But that might not be a
bad thing for this application.
--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.
tel: +1 408 356-3886
@DurandInterstel
|
Hello John,
?
Just to clear up any possible confusion, I believe that Google
has retired Picasa, and moved to Google Photos.
< ?>
?
I know they used to have a web photo storage called Picasa, as
well as a photo application for your computer also called
Picasa..
?
I used to use Picasa, and I really liked it, but now use
Google Drive.
Michael - California, USA
Micro-Mark
MicroLux 7x16
LMS 3990 Hi-Torque Mill with power feed
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
I have used Picasa, (now on version 3).for many years.
It?s a free download.
I believe it is a Google owned program.Not sure.
Good picture storage, it?s easy to send photos via a link process.
to individuals,groups,public etc.
What I like about Picasa is it is not complicated, I tried Photobucket when
people were "raving about it"
I?did not like it, too complicated
for me.
It always wanted to keep backing up my
photo files, by default.
Each to there own I suppose.
Sending links keeps the recipients systems free, as I blieve Picasa stores
the links in the cloud.?
Again not sure.
Not had a problem as yet sending photo?s to any Yahoo group using Picasa in
the past.
Hope this helps.
John
Spain
|
It's dead easy in Windows too.?
Arrange and zoom the pdf page on the screen, then hit Alt-PrtScr (which copies the screen image to memory). ?Then open Paint and paste the image, where you can crop it, size it, etc.; then save as a jpg.
From: "MC Cason farmerboy1967@... [7x12minilathe]" <7x12minilathe@...>
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Re: Pics and files
?
Mike,
I use GIMP to convert PDF files to images files, and then upload them
to Flickr. I don't know how hard it is to do in Windows, but it's quick
and easy in Linux.
On 07/26/2017 10:09 PM, Mike T mctaglieri@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
> I've had a Flickr account for many years, and use it to put photos
> whose links I share with various groups. Much better than having to
> wait for administrators of whatever group to decide whether a
> particular photo is worthy to be posted. It is unfortunate that
> Flickr can't share pdfs also, but it's very simple to use and Drive
> (which can share pdfs) is where I store some things that are personal
> and I'd have to make decisions on whether to share this or that. This
> means that sooner or later I'd share something I wanted to keep
> private and make a laughingstock of myself. Much better to have all
> the photos I want to share in a place that's separate from where I
> store the things I DON'T want to share.
>
> Mike Taglieri
--
Life guestimate of the known universe
Estimated number of stars in the known univese - 400 Sextillion
Estimated number of stars with planets - 400 Quintillion
Estimated number of stars with possible life - 400 Quadrillion
Estimated number of stars with complex life - 400 Trillion
Estimated number of stars with intellegent life - 400 Billion
Estimated number of stars with advanced intellegent life - 400 Million
Estimated number of stars with spacefaring life - 400 Thousand
Estimated number of stars with advanced spacefaring life - 400
|
Re: CNCZEUS is now Open source
I see that it runs on MS-DOS. ? At first this might seem primitive. ? But if you have ever written any DOS software what's going on is your software runs on "bare metal". ? To use more modern terms, MS-DOS simply loads the software then runs it allowing complete root level access to the entire PC. ? There is not scheduler and OS to deal with. ??
To say this again on LinuxCNC terms, every MS-DOS program is in effect a real-time HAL module. ? ?
Yes it is primitive as it uses a full up Intel X86 as it it where a micro controller with no OS. ? But that might not be a bad thing for this application.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 7:47 AM, victorf57@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote:
?
I just noticed
Good cnc software have been playing with it for years In demo mode. Now free. Victor
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
|
Re: Painted Myself Into a Corner Again
The small diameter section (that would be bored) is 2" long and about 1" diameter.? Isn't there a 2x rule, or something like that?? Anyways, I do have a steady rest that I think would capture the end.? Might as well use it
From: "Warren LeMay notebook@... [7x12minilathe]" <7x12minilathe@...>
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [7x12minilathe] Painted Myself Into a Corner Again
?
I agree unless you have a boring bar with an adjustable offset
that is short enough...? With that, you could bore the large hole
to depth and then flip it.
With that much stock out there though, I'm not sure how steady
you are without the center.? Visually, I don't think I'd try the
boring bar without a steady in the mix somewhere.? It could bite
and coughup the whole mess on you.
Good luck with it....
Warren L
On 7/27/2017 1:54 PM, Arthur Coe
acoe@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
?
Thanks.?
I'm probably going with a slight variation of your
suggestion since I will need to bore the hole to a
bigger diameter at the small end.? I'll start by
chucking the small end, using the already faced surface
to assist in alignment.? After indicating as you
suggested,? I'll then face the large diameter end.
Next,
I'll flip and re-align the piece, using the now faced
large diameter end against the chuck face to assist in
the alignment.? Then drill through the existing center
hole and bore the end to the larger diameter.
?
The
new account worked great....and good
photo too!!
I stay with my original suggestion
- part it, flip it, center it, drill
it, and face it.? You also have enough
of the small area to indicate and even
have finished the large area enough
that you can indicate there too.
Just to make yourself feel better,
you might want to indicate the large
end, then take an inside mike and
measure the finished area to the
ways.? If it's too far for your mike,
a 123 block should bring you to a test
spot.
However, dialing in the small area
in your 4 jaw as you normally would,
then checking the large end should do
it.? If both ends indicate, they are
on axis.
Warren L
On
7/26/2017 4:49 PM, acoe@...
[7x12minilathe] wrote:
?
I
I am now the proud possessor
of a Flickr account.? Trying
again with a photo posted on
that site (let's see if it
works): ?
?
So, there (assuming photo is
accessible) is the piece I'm
working on.? If I don't go the
short drill bit route suggested
by one of you guys, I'll be band
sawing the turned section off at
about Section A-B.? The face at
C has been faced off as close as
I could get to the TS center and
there is a center drilled hole
for the TS also.
Right now the center drilled
hole, the lesser diameter
turning (about 1" diameter) and
the turned major diameter
section (2" diameter) are all
concentric.
My goal is to get the sawed
off portion re-mounted in my
4-jaw so it is centered and all
the turned sections are
concentric to the rotation of
the spindle.
Got a couple of ideas
already.? Any other thoughts?
Also, did this Flickr thing
actually work?
|
I have used Picasa, (now on version 3).for many years. It?s a free download. I believe it is a Google owned program.Not sure.
Good picture storage, it?s easy to send photos via a link process. to individuals,groups,public etc.
What I like about Picasa is it is not complicated, I tried Photobucket when people were "raving about it" I?did not like it, too complicated for me. It always wanted to keep backing up my photo files, by default.
Each to there own I suppose. Sending links keeps the recipients systems free, as I blieve Picasa stores the links in the cloud.? Again not sure.
Not had a problem as yet sending photo?s to any Yahoo group using Picasa in the past.
Hope this helps.
John Spain
|
Warren LeMay
OldToolmaker