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Re: through bore
Ian wrote.....If the drill self feeds it breaker its grip with the taper and slips.......
This only happens if the forces are excessive. The depth of cut on each lip will be less than 8 thou. The rate of feed is entirely depepndant on how slow you turn the handle. The flute angle (rake) can be overcome by grinding a flat each lip, as for drilling brass. This is the way I have done many jobs without the drill pulling out. The last one opening up a hole to 1.25 ". Reamers are very expensive for a one off job. You could try and get on the Varmit Al's reamer queue, or just buy a 13/64" drill and DIY. HTH Ellis |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Sulphate... shmulphate. You guys are so far over my head here I can't
even participate. I do believe I've learned something here though, thanks for that. Given what I've read though, I think I'd opt for the "build an EDM unit" method. Kills two birds with one stone. 1) Gets the tap out. 2) Have a new tool in my arsenal. And the square hole thing really facinates me. :D Something about boiling acid on the SWMBO's kitchen stove just won't float around my shack. Oh, and btw, stop using those high-falutin words around here. "Pedantic"? I aint even gonna look that one up. :) Rance --- In 7x12minilathe@..., andrew franks <andyf1108@...> wrote: metabisulphite (Na2 S2 O5), rather than metabisulphate, but I don't suppose that would make any practical difference. I might also experiment with sulphuric (battery) acid. When I made my first attempts at anodising, it seemed to leave the aluminium alone (no doubt because of the oxide layer), so maybe that would attack the broken tap and not the aluminium alloy it was stuck in. I suppose an initial rinse in solvent would help, by getting rid of any cutting oil and allowing the chosen chemical to get at the steel.
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Re: File download problems (Works for m)
No, I just downloaded 2 DOC files and watched a MOV of the Adj.
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Backplate. :) However, are we back to duplicate posts again? Some look very familiar. 8-| --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "oneacmename" <daniel@...> wrote:
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Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
andrew franks
Hello Folks,
To be pedantic, I think that the sterilising stuff is sodium metabisulphite (Na2 S2 O5), rather than metabisulphate, but I don't suppose that would make any practical difference. I might also experiment with sulphuric (battery) acid. When I made my first attempts at anodising, it seemed to leave the aluminium alone (no doubt because of the oxide layer), so maybe that would attack the broken tap and not the aluminium alloy it was stuck in. I suppose an initial rinse in solvent would help, by getting rid of any cutting oil and allowing the chosen chemical to get at the steel. Andy roylowenthal <roylowenthal@...> wrote: Yup! That's the same sodium bisulphate as the pH down product for pools/spas. It's quicker than alum (any of the common variants) & easy to get. Roy --- In 7x12minilathe@..., Victoria Welch <wrlabs@...> wrote: the theywork. Being a bisulphate the iron ions do not need to displace the productid=285&cat=0&page=1just neutralise the solution forming iron sulphate and sodiumFound this at my local homebrew store: with the best firepower.-- The Warlord (_Ivory_, Mick Resnick) --------------------------------- Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. |
Re: through bore
G'day Ellis
Drilling from the tail stock is OK but the drill or chuck is held by a taper. If the drill self feeds it breaker its grip with the taper and slips. An exercise in futility. You have to keep cutting pressure om the drill and the drill takes over so you can't restrict the feed rate. A reamer is the way to go. Note that machine reamers have straight flutes whilst hand reamers have spiral flutes. One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@...> wrote: large drill enlarging a hole; they tend to self feed at their spiral rate.......... drill presses. Using the screw operated tailstock and only opening up by 1/64" at a time should be very little problem. If necessary, the lips could be 'backed' off in the same fashion as brass drills. Of course, the quill travel is limited, so it's a case of drilling a bit, move the tailstock a bit. HTH |
Re: through bore
Roy wrote.....The practical problem is controlling the feed of a large drill enlarging a hole; they tend to self feed at their spiral rate..........
I believe this is only true with lever operated machines, such as drill presses. Using the screw operated tailstock and only opening up by 1/64" at a time should be very little problem. If necessary, the lips could be 'backed' off in the same fashion as brass drills. Of course, the quill travel is limited, so it's a case of drilling a bit, move the tailstock a bit. HTH Ellis |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Victoria Welch
On Thursday 05 April 2007, roylowenthal wrote:
Yup! That's the same sodium bisulphate as the pH down product forThankee Sir! Will head down there tomorrow, I only have a little of that left in the homebrew supplies. Time to stock up for another batch anyway. Unfortunately too late in the year to lager another batch out on the balcony :(. Take care, Vikki. [ ... ] --Would that work? Victoria Welch, WV9K/7 "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things." --John S. Mill |
Re: through bore
Reaming it provides a smooth bore & ensures it's actually as big as
it claims to be. Roy --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@...> wrote:
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Re: through bore
The practical problem is controlling the feed of a large drill
enlarging a hole; they tend to self feed at their spiral rate. It's easier to control a reamer's feed. Roy --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@...> wrote: hole, a drill would do just as well, except a 13/16" drill bit requires more torque than the lathe can deliver.......... rate and cutting speed. If a drill was fed at the same or slower rate, then the cut could be made. HTH |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Victoria Welch <wrlabs@...>
wrote: Hi Vikki, Well, I didn't mention that when I sat my last chemistry exam I burnt all my lecture notes BEFORE the results came back. No way I was repeating that subject even if they did let me back! Thirty odd years on, I design and manufacture industrial ozone generating equipment. I still don't understand the chemistry but I can tear O2 molecules apart with brute force (high voltages) and even do titrations to measure the output with a recipe / cheat sheet, courtesy of an industrial chemist on the west coast. But understand it? What was Seargent Schultz's famous line? John |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Yup! That's the same sodium bisulphate as the pH down product for
pools/spas. It's quicker than alum (any of the common variants) & easy to get. Roy --- In 7x12minilathe@..., Victoria Welch <wrlabs@...> wrote: the theywork. Being a bisulphate the iron ions do not need to displace the productid=285&cat=0&page=1just neutralise the solution forming iron sulphate and sodiumFound this at my local homebrew store: with the best firepower.-- The Warlord (_Ivory_, Mick Resnick) |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Jeff Demand
Ian,
Am no chemist but have used Sodium Bisulphate (meta too I think) for broken drills etc in gold, silver, and aluminium. For aluminium somewhat dilute nitric would be faster but much harder to obtain these days and not nearly as safe from a handling aspect. For gold and silver it saved my reputation on a number of occasions in commercial shops. Jeff * REPLY SEPARATOR * On 4/5/2007 at 11:37 PM Ian Foster wrote: G'day Jeff, Andy, et al.1:09 PM - Demand Designs Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing jdemand@... - |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Victoria Welch
On Thursday 05 April 2007, Ian Foster wrote:
G'day Jeff, Andy, et al.Found this at my local homebrew store: Would that work? Convenient place to get to (something special in Seattle) and I do already go there from time to time. Embarrassed to admit what chemistry I did take has long since been forgotten <blush>. Thanks & take care, Vikki. -- Victoria Welch, WV9K/7 It is my reading of history that Allah usually favours the army with the best firepower.-- The Warlord (_Ivory_, Mick Resnick) |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
G'day Jeff, Andy, et al.
I'm not quite sure by your comments whether you have used Sodium Bisulphate to extract broken taps. If you have then that substantiates my assessment that it is the sulphate ions which do the work. Being a bisulphate the iron ions do not need to displace the sodium ions to form sodium hydroxide (corrosive to aluminium), they just neutralise the solution forming iron sulphate and sodium sulphate. In my discussions it can sound like the ions making up the repective salts just combine in solution, this is not the case. The solution is just a soup of dissociated ions which don't come together until they become insoluble, either by their inherent properies (as for insoluble salts like calcium carbonate) or by concentatration which leads to crystalisation (as for common salt, sodium chloride). In Oz you can readily obtain Sodium Metabisulphate for sterilising home brew gear and for fruit preservation, Ive used it myself in that role. The metabisulphate may have too high a pH to be effective. Andy! Here's another chemical to test. Safer than making Gun Cotton! One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Jeff Demand" <jdemand@...> wrote: jewellery pickle is labelled " Sodium Bisulfate". The PH down might bea 'sodium meta bisulfate' but it is reported to be a cleaner (and cheaper)replacement for the jewellery standard Sparax brand. A totally different chemicalthan alum but it has worked for me in the past and is always available in mystudio.
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Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Jeff Demand
Ian,
For some more info to confuse the chemistry freaks... the jewellery pickle is labelled " Sodium Bisulfate". The PH down might be a 'sodium meta bisulfate' but it is reported to be a cleaner (and cheaper) replacement for the jewellery standard Sparax brand. A totally different chemical than alum but it has worked for me in the past and is always available in my studio. The Ph stuff will have to wait for testing... 6" of white shit today and probably another 6" by morning, good thing I didn't store the snow blower quite yet. Vermont CAN be interesting if you have a really twisted sense of humour ;-) Jeff * REPLY SEPARATOR * On 4/5/2007 at 10:15 PM Ian Foster wrote: G'day Andy,1:09 PM - Demand Designs Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing jdemand@... - |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
G'day Andy,
Perhaps you could do a few extra-curricular experiments. Drill a hole in pieces of aluminium and then drive steel screws into into each then. No need to thread the hole. Not quite the same as our problem because there are no flutes for the electrolyte to pass through; this may require some thought, eg grind flats on the side of the screws. I'd start with the cheapest and most readily accessible alum. Or get what ever varieties are available and do comparative tests, hence the number of pieces. The trouble is we leave such experimentation until it is life and death not an experiment. Some how I think the straight aluminium sulphate may he the best. As I said in an rearlier post the aluminium ions would deposit out of the solution as Aluminium Hydroxide, whilst the hydroxides of potasium and ammonia are water soluble and would attack the native aluminium. But only experimentation will tell. One good turn deserves another. Regards, Ian |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
andrew franks
Thanks, Ian. My chemistry stopped with school "A-level" (the exams that qualify you for uni). We had opportunities for extra-curricular experiments making gun-cotton, benzedrine etc. Much more exciting than the H & S regulated stuff that they do now. Do you reckon "any old alum" will do the trick for taps stuck in aluminium, or should I be looking for "potash alum" or "ammonium alum"?
Andy --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. |
Re: Broke the tap, Grrrrr.
Hi Jeff,
What a neat idea. After the work's been buggered I can save the tap to present to the tool store as evidence! Yeah, Ian sorted me out on that. But I'm still not repeating CHEM- 101. <G> John --- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Jeff Demand" <jdemand@...> wrote: work ;-) Alkalinity Increaser I have in the corner would be the same stuff?- |
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