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Hi Ian,

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

Regarding the coned nut or end, I don't see any need to pin it to

the

shaft, friction is a mighty thing!

My concern was that friction has a covert relationship to the Murphy
family. It might let you tighten things, then slip when you want
things to loosen. As you say, it's hypothetical at this stage. Time
will reveal all.

John

I made a mandrel with a taper lock to hold a handwheel (9" OD, cast
iron)recycled from a discarded NordicTrac as shown here:


The groove at the end of the saw cuts makes it work much more easily.
Tapering the end isn't necessary, the movement is only a few thou so
the steel won't take a set. It takes about a half turn of the nut to
lock it and it never slips. However, the shallow taper is not
self-releasing so after turning the bolt CCW a half turn I tap the end
of the bolt with my hand - it doesn't take much but it does need that tap.

The large part of the mandrel spaces the handwheel out from the gear
cover, I often use the handwheel with the cover in place. The hole in
the cover had to be enlarged with the Dremel to pass this.

I prefer the handwheel to a crank because the gripping point is always
in the same spot. The handwheel sees a lot of use when threading. Max
RPM with it mounted is about 250 because of a modest balance problem
so I seldom use power with the wheel mounted - except I back taps out
slowly with power.

John

Jeff wrote.......I'm REALLY good at miss-placing allen wrenches, damned trolls will snatch one in a heart beat..........

I don't think you are shouting at them loud enough !!! Anyway, to thwart them, change the allen bolt for a made up bolt with a pin for the handle. A suitable washer thickness will ensure it is in the right place for tightening/slackening and if the handle is firm enough, no troll will be able to take it away.
HTH
Ellis

Richard, don't laugh, but ( uh, ok, go ahead and laugh. :D ) I mounted
a couple of cabinet hinges on a couple of pieces of plywood and made my
own cut-off saw. I put a metal cutting blade in my circular saw and
viola. Works like a charm. I had an extra circular saw so I leave it
permanently mounted to the wood. One mans trash is a redneck's tool.

Rance


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Richard Stevens <rtjstevens@...>
wrote:

Hi all, has anyone any thought about which is the better tool for

cutting

metal prior to turning etc - the 6x4 bandsaw or the circular type as
exemplified by the RAGE2 Pro 355mm Multi Purpose Cut Off Saw (230v)

...which can be seen on:

multi-purp

ose-cut-off-saw-230/brand/evolution.

Thanks,

Richard

G'day Johm

Your proposal would work, but I would make two mods as I am concerned
the shaft may be difficult to release. Firstly I would cut a groove
at the point where the hacksaw cuts end, this will focus the bending
to this point. Secondly I would have turned the end to a slight
taper, a few thou thinner at the end so that when the wedge nut is
released the expanded part would contract to under the shaft diameter.

I haven't considered the bolt but would probably use a commercial
product. My local hardware store sells a range of 8mm metric bolts up
to 150mm long, they are not high tensile but are forged ane quite
tough. Most hardware stores have a range of imperial threaded rod
available up to 1/2" diameter, I think the thread is Whitworth.
I don't see any difficulty cutting an 8mm thread as I have already
cut a 3/8 x 24 thread plus smaller metric threads successfully. I
found I could do it under power and didn't meed a crank or handwheel;
you do need to design a runout groove for the thread cutting tool
when cutting to a shoulder and have you whits about you.

Regarding the coned nut or end, I don't see any need to pin it to the
shaft, friction is a mighty thing!

Anyhow, all this is hyperthetical and for me about 3 projects away.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards
Ian

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@...>
wrote:

Hi Ian,

I have seen bike handlebars done that way. My thoughts on such a
locking mechanism were more on a par with a masonry bolt. Slit your
close fitting shaft - even crudely with a hack saw - at every 90
degrees say. Then turn a cone shape to partially sit inside your
close fitting shaft as a spreader. Tap at 8mm for the draw bolt.
That should eliminate any misalignment during tightening. In either
case, during removal you need to loosen the 8mm bolt but NOT use it
to pull the close-fitting shaft out of the spindle as that would
tend to re-lock it.

Just a thought. Both approaches lend themselves to reversal. Turn
the 8mm bolt around and use an off-the-shelf nut on the outer end.
Key the inner end to the cone or wedge section by milling a slot or
pinning. This avoids cutting a long thread with any associated
angst. It also means both bolt & nut can be high tensile with

little

chance of ever stripping and easy replacement anyway. Or were you
figuring on cutting the 8mm thread in the lathe?

Hi all, has anyone any thought about which is the better tool for cutting
metal prior to turning etc - the 6x4 bandsaw or the circular type as
exemplified by the RAGE2 Pro 355mm Multi Purpose Cut Off Saw (230v)

...which can be seen on:

ose-cut-off-saw-230/brand/evolution.

Thanks,

Richard

Ellis,

I'm REALLY good at miss-placing allen wrenches, damned trolls will
snatch one in a heart beat. Any mod is worth the extra effort of a cam to
thwart the evil creatures. My goal is to only need an allen wrench when
initially installing a tool in a tool holder, mucking about with change
gears, or lathe disassembly (looking for lost allen wrenches :-)

Jeff

* REPLY SEPARATOR *

On 3/28/2007 at 7:33 PM Ellis Cory wrote:

Jeff wrote.......A carriage clamp would fit between those ears but it can
get really crowded and hard to access.........

Not if you mount it on the tailstock side of the saddle and offset the
bolt to the rear. I also used an allen bolt the same size as the tool
clamps on the toolpost and with a ball ended allen wrench it is very easy
and only one tool fits all.
HTH
Ellis

-
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing


jdemand@...
-

Jeff wrote.......A carriage clamp would fit between those ears but it can get really crowded and hard to access.........

Not if you mount it on the tailstock side of the saddle and offset the bolt to the rear. I also used an allen bolt the same size as the tool clamps on the toolpost and with a ball ended allen wrench it is very easy and only one tool fits all.
HTH
Ellis

Vikki,

I modified my compound rest bottom, new pivot hole and a hole for the
cam shaft. The 1677 has un-needed holes for those cursed hidden screws;
would start to look like swiss cheese. Simple with a mill, even just a
drill press, and can be returned to the original set up if I ever need the
aggravation of those screws.
A carriage clamp would fit between those ears but it can get really crowded
and hard to access, I'm leaning more towards
< >

Jeff

* REPLY SEPARATOR *

John and Ian,
"...you've got me crossed with the other crank, Ian from South
Australia. Close - I'm in Eastern Australia"

OOPS! Sorry, both. I reckon I'll have to start taking more water with
it!
Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your condolances re the dental work. However, you've got
me crossed with the other crank, Ian from South Australia. Close -
I'm in Eastern Australia. I've got a tooth ache just thinking about
that cracking sound Ian described!

John
...with a Sieg - nothing but a pillow block on the end of my LS
(until I get a crank too)



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., andrew franks <andyf1108@...>
wrote:

Hello Ian,
Some lathes, particularly the "Weiss" ones (see recent posts),

have a 10mm long stub on the end of the leadscrew, projecting beyond
the bearing block. It's threaded M8, and as John says, there's a nut
on the end, to adjust the leadscrew end-float. The nut is 16mm long,
and a hex grubscrew goes into the "spare" 6mm, to act like a
locknut. It was hardly needed on my lathe, because the thread was so
poor on the inner 2mm of the stub that the nut was almost
immoveable. I tried a Spanish windlass to hold the leadscrew still,
but in the end had to use a Mole wrench on it, with leather to
prevent scarring, and emery paper for grip.

I'm not sure of the pedigree of John's lathe (a very good

evening to you, John, by the way, and sorry to read about the
dentistry needed on your gear tooth), but it has a similar
projecting stub. Very useful as a starting point for a handwheel and
dial.

Andy


born4something <ajs@...> wrote:
Hi Ian,

See below:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@>
wrote:

G'day all, especially Andy Franks.

Some of the 7x12s and their sisters have a nut at the RH end of

the

lead screw to the right of the bearing block. I think the Yellow
versions of the Cummins lathe, the Chester Conquest and the

WB180

are

included. The nut helps take the float out of the lead screw and

is

locked by an internal grub screw.

I can't picture what you mean by an internal grub screw. How's

that

work?

TAKE CARE adjusting this nut.

To start with I put a tinned copper thrust washer on the screw

on

the

LH side of the bearing block.

Why? If there was float, wouldn't you take it out with the nut? I
only have the nut sitting on my shoulders, none on the LS, so I
don't get what you were doing.

I finger tightened the retaing nut and
left it. In service the nut tightend and I heard a clicking

sound

from the change gears. Fortunately the banjo was loose enough to
allow the gears to jump teeth. No damage this time.
I am now making a crank and dial for the lead screw which

includes

a

new longer nut with a sleeve for the extension shaft. The grub

screw

is inside this new nut to retain the locking function. Adjusting

it

with the lathe running slowly was enough to cause the nut to

bind

to

the bearing block and a crack sound emanated from the change

gears.

Very close inspection showed the 80 tooth gear has cracked at

the

perimeter and shed a tooth. The wheel is not beyond recovery,

thanks

to epoxies, and I do have a spare bought previously from LMS for

just

such an emergency.

Yep, great minds think alike. I bought a spare too - a mechanical
fuse.

I plan a hand crank for the LS but have no nut on the end. I think

I

saw some plans in the files area that sleeved an extenion

internally

(drilling the LS end and pinning the extension) so I'll probably
need to go that way.

I think there are more nuts than the one on the end of the lead

screw!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

So one good crank deserves another?

John






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ian,
Some lathes, particularly the "Weiss" ones (see recent posts), have a 10mm long stub on the end of the leadscrew, projecting beyond the bearing block. It's threaded M8, and as John says, there's a nut on the end, to adjust the leadscrew end-float. The nut is 16mm long, and a hex grubscrew goes into the "spare" 6mm, to act like a locknut. It was hardly needed on my lathe, because the thread was so poor on the inner 2mm of the stub that the nut was almost immoveable. I tried a Spanish windlass to hold the leadscrew still, but in the end had to use a Mole wrench on it, with leather to prevent scarring, and emery paper for grip.

I'm not sure of the pedigree of John's lathe (a very good evening to you, John, by the way, and sorry to read about the dentistry needed on your gear tooth), but it has a similar projecting stub. Very useful as a starting point for a handwheel and dial.
Andy


born4something <ajs@...> wrote:
Hi Ian,

See below:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day all, especially Andy Franks.

Some of the 7x12s and their sisters have a nut at the RH end of

the

lead screw to the right of the bearing block. I think the Yellow
versions of the Cummins lathe, the Chester Conquest and the WB180

are

included. The nut helps take the float out of the lead screw and

is

locked by an internal grub screw.

I can't picture what you mean by an internal grub screw. How's that
work?

TAKE CARE adjusting this nut.

To start with I put a tinned copper thrust washer on the screw on

the

LH side of the bearing block.

Why? If there was float, wouldn't you take it out with the nut? I
only have the nut sitting on my shoulders, none on the LS, so I
don't get what you were doing.

I finger tightened the retaing nut and
left it. In service the nut tightend and I heard a clicking sound
from the change gears. Fortunately the banjo was loose enough to
allow the gears to jump teeth. No damage this time.
I am now making a crank and dial for the lead screw which includes

a

new longer nut with a sleeve for the extension shaft. The grub

screw

is inside this new nut to retain the locking function. Adjusting

it

with the lathe running slowly was enough to cause the nut to bind

to

the bearing block and a crack sound emanated from the change

gears.

Very close inspection showed the 80 tooth gear has cracked at the
perimeter and shed a tooth. The wheel is not beyond recovery,

thanks

to epoxies, and I do have a spare bought previously from LMS for

just

such an emergency.

Yep, great minds think alike. I bought a spare too - a mechanical
fuse.

I plan a hand crank for the LS but have no nut on the end. I think I
saw some plans in the files area that sleeved an extenion internally
(drilling the LS end and pinning the extension) so I'll probably
need to go that way.

I think there are more nuts than the one on the end of the lead

screw!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

So one good crank deserves another?

John






---------------------------------
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G'day crank.
"So one good crank deserves another?.. John"
The tinned copper washer to prevent steel to steel contacr, roughly
equivalent to a babbit bearing.
The internal grub screw is on the same axis and runs in the same
thread as the shaft. Think of it as inside out lock nuts, see the
compound feed screw with its two nuts.

I am glad I don't have to extend the LS with that internal shaft
method. The Long LS will be hard to handle without risking damage.
You could extend it by drilling and tapping the LS end for a say a 6
or 8mm threaded shaft extension. Screw the shaft extension includung
a lock nut to tighten against the end of the shaft, that with Loctite
should never move. You could just screw up the lead screw.

BTW, the Tail Stock has taken me about 10 months to get right. Out of
the box it was seriously high. Lots of blueing and filing of the V
and the face of the body got it closer to right but still not
perfect. I wanted to get on with other things so left it, making
allowances where necessary particularly when drilling.
The other day I taped some emery cloth to the V of and ran the foot
back and forth over it. I put a thin card on the other side to get
some kind of level. Once blueing showed I had good contact along the
V I put emery cloth on the flat of the bed and ran the foot on both
surfaces. I used the depth part of the calipers to make sure the top
face of the foot was level. I did the clamping screw mod filing a nut
out of some handy brass bar. On reasembly I was more than pleased
with the outcome, shear luck, I had the height right and the
alignments parallel. You need to win sometimes! Centre drilling is
now a breeze.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards
Ian

Hi Ian,

See below:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day all, especially Andy Franks.

Some of the 7x12s and their sisters have a nut at the RH end of

the

lead screw to the right of the bearing block. I think the Yellow
versions of the Cummins lathe, the Chester Conquest and the WB180

are

included. The nut helps take the float out of the lead screw and

is

locked by an internal grub screw.

I can't picture what you mean by an internal grub screw. How's that
work?

TAKE CARE adjusting this nut.

To start with I put a tinned copper thrust washer on the screw on

the

LH side of the bearing block.

Why? If there was float, wouldn't you take it out with the nut? I
only have the nut sitting on my shoulders, none on the LS, so I
don't get what you were doing.

I finger tightened the retaing nut and
left it. In service the nut tightend and I heard a clicking sound
from the change gears. Fortunately the banjo was loose enough to
allow the gears to jump teeth. No damage this time.
I am now making a crank and dial for the lead screw which includes

a

new longer nut with a sleeve for the extension shaft. The grub

screw

is inside this new nut to retain the locking function. Adjusting

it

with the lathe running slowly was enough to cause the nut to bind

to

the bearing block and a crack sound emanated from the change

gears.

Very close inspection showed the 80 tooth gear has cracked at the
perimeter and shed a tooth. The wheel is not beyond recovery,

thanks

to epoxies, and I do have a spare bought previously from LMS for

just

such an emergency.

Yep, great minds think alike. I bought a spare too - a mechanical
fuse.

I plan a hand crank for the LS but have no nut on the end. I think I
saw some plans in the files area that sleeved an extenion internally
(drilling the LS end and pinning the extension) so I'll probably
need to go that way.

I think there are more nuts than the one on the end of the lead

screw!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

So one good crank deserves another?

John

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Victoria Welch <wrlabs@...>
wrote:

Still, it is a job getting the hex wrench into it. I used the

mirror

from an old cosmetic compact and a small flashlight held just so

in my

mouth and prayed to heathen gods and I was able to do it.

Wrong gods? <G>

This should give Vikki something to wake up to!

At this point I am hoping I will wake up :).

Flat out of ideas here, going to get away from it for a while.

I'm

beginning to see why this might take someone 10 months to get this

right

if this is how it goes. Then, of course, I'll come back and try

it

again :-).

Yes, stay with it. That TS is in my sights but other things snuck up
on the priority list. I'm relying on you to suss it all out and
document the red herrings / solutions in this thread so I can breeze
through it in a day. I don't have 10 months to dedicate. I didn't
know that Ian did either!

John

Hi Ian,

I have seen bike handlebars done that way. My thoughts on such a
locking mechanism were more on a par with a masonry bolt. Slit your
close fitting shaft - even crudely with a hack saw - at every 90
degrees say. Then turn a cone shape to partially sit inside your
close fitting shaft as a spreader. Tap at 8mm for the draw bolt.
That should eliminate any misalignment during tightening. In either
case, during removal you need to loosen the 8mm bolt but NOT use it
to pull the close-fitting shaft out of the spindle as that would
tend to re-lock it.

Just a thought. Both approaches lend themselves to reversal. Turn
the 8mm bolt around and use an off-the-shelf nut on the outer end.
Key the inner end to the cone or wedge section by milling a slot or
pinning. This avoids cutting a long thread with any associated
angst. It also means both bolt & nut can be high tensile with little
chance of ever stripping and easy replacement anyway. Or were you
figuring on cutting the 8mm thread in the lathe?

John


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day John.

You are lucky to have a significant length of thread left on the

end

of your spindle, I have next to none.
I don't see the expanding shaft as being too difficult, pull the
handle bars out of the neck of a bike to see what I mean. You

can't

make it longer than you can drill anyway.

I am now considering this for an indexer attachment using the

change

gears. What I plan is a close fitting shaft (to the inside of the
spindle) with a relatively steep taper towards the outboard end to
ensure centering. This would be turned down at the end to the gear
diameter and a key way cut in it. The whole would be drilled

through

to take a 8mm bolt. The locking mechanism would be two parts of

the

same diameter as the shaft(close fit in the spindle) made by

turning

down one piece then making an inclined cut through it. The

outboard

piece would be drilled through over size for the 8mm bolt and the
other drilled and tapped for the 8mm bolt. Tightening the bolt

would

force the two pieces to the walls of the spindle thus securing the
indexer. Being two pieces the opposing forces should not misalign

the

attachment too much.
This same method could be used to mount the hand wheel to the

spindle

without risking your spindle bearing preload. There would still be
room for longer work pieces or an excuse to use the steadies.

I must make a hand wheel/ crank to save using the chuck key in the
chuck as a tommy bar to rotate the work when taping.

One good turn (even by a crank) deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@>
wrote:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "roylowenthal"
<roylowenthal@> wrote:

The proponent of that is Mike Tagliari, he did it to allow

turning

long pieces with a handcrank. The only downside is having to

make

sure you don't move the nuts, changing the HS bearing preload.

Roy

And using a hand crank with a long bar poked through the middle

must

be a PITA. But a nice option when necessary. <G> Good argument

for

a

big cast valve wheel!

I just checked. My spindle has a full 4mm of thread on the

outside

of the locknut. That should be sufficient to attach a threaded

crank

onto which would tighten under load in the forward direction.

That

begs the question of how to secure it to allow reverse. Maybe a

pin

into a hole or a slot cut in the spindle end? To avoid loosening

the

spindle lock nut during removal a collet spanner could be used.

Thinking through the keyboard here. Is this the makings of a

viable

crank idea?

roylowenthal wrote:

[ ... ]
The boring head is used to hold a short center an easily adjustable distance away from the lathe centerline for taper turning without disturbing the TS adjustment. The downside is losing a couple of inches of working length on the lathe.

Ah, I mistook boring BAR for boring head, that is a really nifty idea to get tapers!

I think that if I ever get that tailstock aligned I am going to have someone weld it together and us this idea for tapers :-) LOL!

Thanks & take care, Vikki.
--
Victoria Welch, WV9K/7
"Cthulu for President - The candidate for the voter who is tired of voting for the lesser of two evils." --Unknown

Jeff Demand wrote:

Vikki,
These aren't very expensive machines :-) and replacement parts are
easily available from < www.littleMachine Shop.com >.

And thank all the gods that be for LMS :-)!

An early modification
to mine was the cam on the tail stock, it makes working much much more
pleasant. Inspired by the tail stock cam I bought premium plans from <
> for a compound cam lock. A VERY
nice modification, haven't used it enough to determine if JWE's moving of
the pivot point really does reduce chatter, but it does increase the cross
slide range.

I like that one a LOT, cranking the compound back to get at the screws if a serious PITA. I think that LMS offers that modified compound base, but the cam lock for it would be a dream.

One thing I know I need is a saddle lock. Thought a bar across the back of the saddle (resting on those two "ears") and something like the clamp the tailstock uses would be an easy way to do it.

As much as I really like to modify my toys the time spent has been a
worthwhile investment for actual paying jobs. Keep at it, sounds like you
are having as much fun a I am.

I'm having fun, but right at the moment I am really frustrated with the utter failure of my first attempt at centering the tailstock. I'll get over it, but it surely is break time :-).

Thanks & take care, Vikki.
--
Victoria Welch, WV9K/7
"Well, one of the sad lessons of life is that things aren't necessarily true just because the anchor on the evening news says they are." --Jame Retief

G'day all, especially Andy Franks.

Some of the 7x12s and their sisters have a nut at the RH end of the
lead screw to the right of the bearing block. I think the Yellow
versions of the Cummins lathe, the Chester Conquest and the WB180 are
included. The nut helps take the float out of the lead screw and is
locked by an internal grub screw.

TAKE CARE adjusting this nut.

To start with I put a tinned copper thrust washer on the screw on the
LH side of the bearing block. I finger tightened the retaing nut and
left it. In service the nut tightend and I heard a clicking sound
from the change gears. Fortunately the banjo was loose enough to
allow the gears to jump teeth. No damage this time.
I am now making a crank and dial for the lead screw which includes a
new longer nut with a sleeve for the extension shaft. The grub screw
is inside this new nut to retain the locking function. Adjusting it
with the lathe running slowly was enough to cause the nut to bind to
the bearing block and a crack sound emanated from the change gears.
Very close inspection showed the 80 tooth gear has cracked at the
perimeter and shed a tooth. The wheel is not beyond recovery, thanks
to epoxies, and I do have a spare bought previously from LMS for just
such an emergency.

I think there are more nuts than the one on the end of the lead screw!

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

steam4ian wrote:

G'day John, Vikki, Bruce et al.
I just ducked out to the shop to check out my TS. It is possible to do a mod like that suggested but to stand the bracket much further out from the TS. This will allow easier access for a spanner (wrench).

I see why one would want to do this, but wouldn't this nullify the use of shims? Would they / are the shims even necessary?

the LMS kit. One weakness of my version is that the operating handle can foul the lever on the quill clamp. Does the LMS mod do this?

Don't know, but will in the next few days when the kit arrives and I get it installed. Will let you know then.

[ ... ]
TRY THIS. The clamping screw would be accessible from the bottom (up through the ways) if the slipper didn't get in the way. It would only be a few minutes work to measure up and drill a hole in the plate to allow a hex key into the clamping screw. Fiddly but better than doing nothing.

Actually just milling out a crescent on the clamp works on mine, the lock screw is just visible up through the ways.

Still, it is a job getting the hex wrench into it. I used the mirror from an old cosmetic compact and a small flashlight held just so in my mouth and prayed to heathen gods and I was able to do it.

Problem is that in tightening it (yes, I was *careful*) took it from zero top/bottom to about -0.00075 out on the bottom and from about +/- 0.0005 front/rear to about +/- 0.005.

Just for jollies, I chucked up the wooden dowel I was working on (same orientation, fat part toward chuck) and brought the tool in to kiss the wood at the tailstock end and ran it through. EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE, took *nothing* other than dust off.

While considering chucking the whole mess out the window (4 floors down ought to do it) I flipped the piece end for end, brought the cross slide back to reference zero and ran it again. +/- 0.001 variation end to end. ARGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I am about convinced that I ain't got clue one here.

This should give Vikki something to wake up to!

At this point I am hoping I will wake up :).

Flat out of ideas here, going to get away from it for a while. I'm beginning to see why this might take someone 10 months to get this right if this is how it goes. Then, of course, I'll come back and try it again :-).

Thanks & take care, Vikki.
--
Victoria Welch, WV9K/7
"I think - therefore I am not politically correct." -- Unknown