开云体育

You may be limited by the center hole in the stock 3" chuck; if so,
changing to a 4" chuck will solve the problem. The spindle claims to
have a 20 mm bore - it's reamable to 13/16" for a little more room.
There's a 13/16" reamer floating around, Chris at LMS provides adult
supervision to keep it moving.

LMS is a good source of tooling:



There's also a pretty comprehensive vendor list at mini-lathe.com; most
of the suppliers are happy to provide free catalogs,



Roy

I am doing light gun barrel work, just need to reduce outside
diameter over a 4" area, and thread it over a 1" area.
Its an 8.5" long x 3/4" thick barrel. Sound like this baby will
do the trick?
Also whats a good website to but tooling for it?

Got it off.

The trick for me, at least, was to use two large flat blade
screwdrivers with even pressure to both sides of the handle. Using
just one, or with uneven pressure, it would bind and could not be removed.

Here are photos of the new machine:



Thanks!
Kevin

Snips and replies to the various General Information thread replies. Comments embedded in senders text.

Thanks for that, I now know what to look for in my next lathe!

Your welcome

Regarding CNC, I would have thought that would be more fussy with set up than normal where the operator can compensate.

Oh, they are but they use different technology like crossed roller guides instead of doves and ways thus no info on the topic.

Keep up the ferreting.

Will do.

Regards,
Ian

Your descriptions would certainly fit with my experience..... Could really take some metal off with those machines, miss them now that......

It's about leverage and controling that leverage, right?

Gordon

Useful comments re saddle adjustment priorities. Thanks. Re the bed width, I can read that 2 ways. It either puts the Sieg 7x just on the
junk side of "tool room" and close enough to be worth investing some effort into. Or it puts the Sieg 7x just a whisker short of "heavy duty". Well, it ain't the latter!

Seig center height 3.5", bed width 3.25", closer to the junk room (hobby class:-) It's still workable, it just isn't going to take materail the same way a more robust designs would. My contention all along has been " work inside the design". Have to know what you have to do that, right?

John

The Myford ML7 is 3.5"centre height, not including the gap, which is~5". The bed is 4.5 inches across, but the spindle is not centred to this, it is 2.5" back from the front shear. Would this be to give akind of 'effective' ratio to make it more capable when using the fullcapacity of the face plate or 4 jaw, both of which sit in the gap?

Absolutely. Add's about a half inch to the swing capacity. Consider what that means though to work from behind the work piece and how it affects the saddle load.

Someone asked me when I first started the Project Lathe if I was planning on adding a "real" back gear. Seemed useful but pain staking at the time but I may just have to whittle out a new head stock anyway. Glad you posted as I was considering lowering the center height a quarter then using Chris's shaved tool slide to regain the difference. This whould also reduce the swing over the saddle dimension a like amount though. Now moving the center back just may have more merrit and make it worth the trouble. If I go that far a back gear becomes more plausible doesn't it?

Stu G

G'day DBN & Mike.
The temperatures you have recorded do not seem unduely high. You need
to remember that the insulation is most likely rated for 90 degC.
(161 degF) temperture rise, this is typical of modern electrical
materials.
First question. Does the motor pass the smell test? There may be a
sweet oily solvent smell, thats normal, but an acidic or acrid smell
indicates trouble.
Question 2: Do the terminals get hotter than the rating of the
connecting cable insulation? The connecting cables with PVC
insulation generally have a temperature rating of at least 75 deg.C.
After extended running and with the motor disconnected at the wall
outlet, measure the terminal temperature (you can get temperature
marker crayons but a finger will do). Note, higher temperature rated
cables are often used for machinery wiring, often rated to 110 deg.C;
this grade of wire is used in fluorescent luminaires.

The only reliable winding temperature measurement is to measure the
winding resistances when cold and hot and compute the temperature
difference. Handbook type advice would generally assume this means of
measurement.

I would suggest that if the motor does not smell bad, the terminal
temperature is less then the connecting cables insulation temperature
limits and the surface temperature of the motor case does not create
a fire hazard then all is well.

Always keep flammable materials, dusts and fluff away from the motor
and ensure the air flow is unrestricted. Then if the motor does give
up you only have to replace the motor not your house. This is good
advice for any electrical equipment!!

One good turn deserves another
Regards,
Ian


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
wrote:

Hi Mike,

I have a handbook and will look at it later.

I would gather it has more to do with the classification of the

motor. I've worked on a few motors and drive systems over the last
40 years or so and these run a tad hot. Of course, they "might" be
rated as such. Also, as noted, they typically run for short
durations.

The data were posted for all to have.

Thanks!

Take care,
DBN

Michael Taglieri <miket--nyc@...> wrote:
My copy isn't handy so I can't confirm this, but I think

there's a

section on electric motors and their acceptable temperature rise in
Machinery's Handbook.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

The belts were removed but the

stock pulley was left on. The motor had unobstructed airflow and
should be considered "new." The ambient temp was 61.2F (16.2C).

05 min. – 12.1F (6.7C) rise
10 min. – 25.0F (13.9C)
15 min. – 35.6F (19.8C)
20 min. – 42.4F (23.6C)
30 min. – 53.0F (29.4C)
40 min. – 58.9F (32.7C)
50 min. – 62.2F (34.6C)
60 min. – 64.3F (35.7C)

The probe was located on the upper part of the

motor

housing, between the motor body and the junction box.

Without noting all of the readings, in the course of:
13 minutes – temp rise 39.3F;
30 minutes – 49.7F;
46 minutes – 58.1F;
63 minutes – 63F – shut-down motor
66 minutes – 65.7F

G'day Roy,Andy & Johns.
I see your point about irrational ratios for the LS to work piece
thread pitches. Getting lining up with some would be like winning
Lotto twice.
However for integer and fractional relationships the lining up will
occur with reasonable regularity, otherwise the thread chasing dial
wouldn't work either.
My goals in this discussion were to flush out alternate ways of
ensuring repeatable tool to work piece synchronisation perhaps
eliminating the thread chasing dial and, if posible, to save the
driving backwards for imperial/metric conversions. It seems like the
latter is unlikely to be acheived.
I may get time this weekend to carve up the thread on some cheap
hardware store bolts.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "roylowenthal"
<roylowenthal@...> wrote:

By the time you get spindle & LS at exactly the right place you'll
have spent far more time than if you simply reversed with the LS
engaged. Cutting integer imperial threads with an imperial LS

there

are lots of positions where things line up.

Hi Mike,

I have a handbook and will look at it later.

I would gather it has more to do with the classification of the motor. I've worked on a few motors and drive systems over the last 40 years or so and these run a tad hot. Of course, they "might" be rated as such. Also, as noted, they typically run for short durations.

The data were posted for all to have.

Thanks!

Take care,
DBN

Michael Taglieri <miket--nyc@...> wrote:
My copy isn't handy so I can't confirm this, but I think there's a
section on electric motors and their acceptable temperature rise in
Machinery's Handbook.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:22:51 -0800 (PST) Druid Noibn
<druid_noibn@...> writes:

Hi All,

I thought it might be better to continue the thread - I do not
expect much will be said on this item.

I posted the temp rise on the HF 8x12-14 stock lathe motor with
pulleys and gears engaged but no cutting. The next step was to see
what the unloaded temp rise was. The belts were removed but the
stock pulley was left on. The motor had unobstructed airflow and
should be considered “new.” The ambient temp was 61.2F (16.2C).

05 min. – 12.1F (6.7C) rise
10 min. – 25.0F (13.9C)
15 min. – 35.6F (19.8C)
20 min. – 42.4F (23.6C)
30 min. – 53.0F (29.4C)
40 min. – 58.9F (32.7C)
50 min. – 62.2F (34.6C)
60 min. – 64.3F (35.7C)

This listing, and the one previously posted, indicate that the
motor runs a tad on the hot side although within typical
specifications (I don’t have the data sheet on the motor). The
tests were run on a continuously running motor which might be a
little unusual for most applications.

Again, this is just a little information for those who might wish
it.

Take care,
DBN


Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

Point well taken.

I routinely use the hand-contact and counting rule and surprisingly
it is rather accurate. However, without doubt, the motor is running
on the hot side - of course, I am spolied by U.S. built motors,
transformers, etc... When I worked for a German-based company some
years ago, we replaced transformers and power diodes as often as one
replaced fuses. Several reported that the ratings placed on the
motors from China are at best suspicious or as some stated,
pararphrased, China must have small horses. Nonetheless, if time
permits, I'll run an unloaded test this weekend.

Thanks,
DBN

Ed Boysun <boysungran@...> wrote:

That really doesn't seem all that far out of line, to me. When being
run
continously, most motors will be nearly hot to the touch. Generally,
if
you can place your hand on them and count to 2, without being
burned,
nothing will be hurt in the motor. I guess I should really check
some of
my larger ones with an IR temp gun after they have run for a couple
hours, but I'd be surprised if they didn't run at least that warm.

Just looked at the plate on one of my water pump motors. That one
is
thermally protected for 40C above ambient.

Ed B
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "druid_noibn"
<druid_noibn@...>
wrote:

Hi All,

For those who might find it "interesting" – I noticed the motor

of

the HF 8x12-14 was a tad warm and thought a check was in order.

With a motor and ambient temp of 65F the lathe was turned on – no
metal turning. The probe was located on the upper part of the

motor

housing, between the motor body and the junction box.

Without noting all of the readings, in the course of:
13 minutes – temp rise 39.3F;
30 minutes – 49.7F;
46 minutes – 58.1F;
63 minutes – 63F – shut-down motor
66 minutes – 65.7F

I didn't run the motor unloaded yet.

So the motor runs hot - an auxiliary fan might be in order.

Take care,
DBN

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--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Marty N" <martyn@...> wrote:

Loosely, machines with beds wider than center height are considered
"heavy duty" lathes. Those whose beds equal center height are
considered
"tool room" and those whose beds are narrower than the center height
and
considered junk (hobby?). Seig 7" machines are about 3.25" across the
bed, depends where you measure ;(

The Myford ML7 is 3.5"centre height, not including the gap, which is
~5". The bed is 4.5 inches across, but the spindle is not centred to
this, it is 2.5" back from the front shear. Would this be to give a
kind of 'effective' ratio to make it more capable when using the full
capacity of the face plate or 4 jaw, both of which sit in the gap?

Stu G

Marty, the overall width of the bed is a tad under 4", so I suppose it falls in your "toolroom" category. There are two raised prisms (thus, the saddle must be different from a minilathe), the one on the back of the bed being smaller. I'll sketch up a cross-section and mail you direct with more exact measurements - I can't post a sketch on here, and this is getting a bit OT anyway.
Incidentally, for their minilathe, Warco boast "USA made, high qualiity printed circuit boards for long term reliability". Interesting, though we run on 230v over here, rather than your 110v, so you might need a transformer, even if you could locate the manufacturer.
Andy

Marty N <martyn@...> wrote:
Andrew Franks writes:

<snip> My "Warco WM180" is 7x 12, and shares a lot of features (saddle and everything above it) with a regular mini-lathe. <snip>

Andy this snippet could have been more timely for me. Could you do me a favor and measure the width of the bed please and post back. Thanks.

Looks like a very nice machine and I wish I would have seen this before starting my project machine.

Marty








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--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Marty N" <martyn@...> wrote:

Loosely, machines with beds wider than center height are

considered "heavy duty" lathes. Those whose beds equal center height
are considered "tool room" and those whose beds are narrower than the
center height and considered junk (hobby?). Seig 7" machines are about
3.25" across the bed, depends where you measure ;(

Hi Marty,

Useful comments re saddle adjustment priorities. Thanks. Re the bed
width, I can read that 2 ways. It either puts the Sieg 7x just on the
junk side of "tool room" and close enough to be worth investing some
effort into. Or it puts the Sieg 7x just a whisker short of "heavy
duty". Well, it ain't the latter!

John

Marty:

Your descriptions would certainly fit with my experience. My big LeBlond at work had a 24 inch center with ways about 30 inches apart. the smaller LeBlond was almost equal, and considered a tool room lathe. The same type ratio applied to our two American Pacemaker machines. The 16 inch had ways about 22 inches apart, and the smaller unit was more "square".

Could really take some metal off with those machines, miss them now that I only have a small Prazi at home.

Gordon

martyn@... wrote:

G'day Marty.
Thanks for that, I now know what to look for in my next lathe!
Perhaps somebody could "improve" a Sieg by puting two beds side by
side. I noted your comments about the WM180, it seems a much better
machine. Warco also have a more typical 7x12 for which they now offer
a cam lock tail stock which appears to have a longer foot. They may
be able to supply these as spares.

I don't recall many machines, and I've seen a few, where the bed was
much wider than the centre height except for some monsters in the
shipyard machineshop annex.

Regarding CNC, I would have thought that would be more fussy with set
up than normal where the operator can compensate.

Keep up the ferreting.
One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

" Loosely, machines with beds wider than center height are
considered "heavy duty" lathes. Those whose beds equal center height
are considered "tool room" and those whose beds are narrower than the
center height and considered junk (hobby?). Seig 7" machines are
about 3.25" across the bed, depends where you measure "

If I had room for a 20 liter drum of oil, I could've bought a bigger
lathe.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"

Group:

I do allot of research building my machine and find much of the sought information very hard to come by. I had posted a request a few days ago about saddle gib adjustment dimensions and thankfully, no one replied. I say that because I would have stopped rooting around had I received an answer which would have been a lost opportunity to learn something.

There is a fellow on my Southbend site who has a shop that rebuilds old lathes. Much of the knowledge on the net being geared toward the rapid machining world of CNC seems to have old manual machine information disappearing at a rapid rate and its nice to run into someone like Turk who is old enough and experienced enough to remember "when it was".

Sleuthing threw old post of his, I found some definitions and dimensions I had been looking for on machine design.

Did you know, for example, that Southbend Workshop lathes don't even have a front gib? Me either and I own one, that's embarrassing. Just a keep plate that is part of the apron to keep it from flying off ;) They do, however have some interesting dimensions. Seems as a general rule the rear gib is the work horse. A heavy cast iron fixture that is the same length as the swing of the lathe. Yep, a 10" long gib!

These machines, among others of good reputation have a bed width no narrower than the center height of the machine. This keeps, I'm told, the cutter and work not only inside the bed rails, but inside the inner face of the "V", thus all force is basically down and on the back of the "V" on the front and up on the rear with a slight polar moment that the "V" and long rear gib takes care of.

Loosely, machines with beds wider than center height are considered "heavy duty" lathes. Those whose beds equal center height are considered "tool room" and those whose beds are narrower than the center height and considered junk (hobby?). Seig 7" machines are about 3.25" across the bed, depends where you measure ;(

Adjusting machines of these dimensions then becomes, whatever on the front and as little as possible on the back gib with drag the limit.

Interesting!

Marty

My copy isn't handy so I can't confirm this, but I think there's a
section on electric motors and their acceptable temperature rise in
Machinery's Handbook.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"


On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:22:51 -0800 (PST) Druid Noibn
<druid_noibn@...> writes:

By the time you get spindle & LS at exactly the right place you'll
have spent far more time than if you simply reversed with the LS
engaged. Cutting integer imperial threads with an imperial LS there
are lots of positions where things line up. When you start getting
into n 1/2 threads (like some pipe threads) it gets more
restrictive. When you're cutting bizarre decimals, like metric
approximations, it's functionally impossible to get things lined up
for subsequent passes.

In practice, it's quicker to cut threads on these machines by using a
handcrank on the spindle & keeping the half-nuts engaged. If it's a
relatively long thread, you can use the motor to return to the
starting point for each pass, taking care to not get hit by the
handcrank.

Roy

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day John et al.
Thank you for replying. I have had a few moments to digest what you
are saying. Spindle angle is also important in the equation.

Thus the Spindle must be at a set angle, the saddle at a set

position

and the LS at a set position for a repeatable outcome. The set
position of the LS is implicit in the half nuts being able to close
(assuming a single start thread on the LS). Missing from my
assessment was the spindle angle.

So you set up by putting the saddle against the stop, rotate the
lathe by hand to engage the half nut, mark the spindle against a
reference, mark the LS against a reference then take the first

pass.

Subsequent passes would require the saddle to be against the stop,
the spindle to line up with its reference and the LS marker to line
up with its reference, engage the half nuts as the marks line up.

Please comment.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., John Dammeyer <johnd@> wrote:

Hi Ian,

You are making an assumption that when the lead screw is at a

specific

point when the spindle is at an equally repeatable location.

That's

essentially how the thread chasing dial works. If you were

cutting

a

thread that required engaging the half nut at any line it means

that the

lead screw and spindle are linked in multiples of your lead screw

pitch.

But if you are cutting a thread where the #3 position and only

the

#3

position is the right place it's possible that the spindle is 90

degree

offset for the #2 position, 180 for the #1 position and 270

offset

for

the #4 position.

Now follow that same line of thinking for metric and you may find

that

the nut would have to be engaged at the #1 position the first

time. The

1.27 position the next time and so on.

John Dammeyer


Automation Artisans Inc.

Ph. 1 250 544 4950

Andrew Franks writes:

<snip> My "Warco WM180" is 7x 12, and shares a lot of features (saddle and everything above it) with a regular mini-lathe. <snip>

Andy this snippet could have been more timely for me. Could you do me a favor and measure the width of the bed please and post back. Thanks.

Looks like a very nice machine and I wish I would have seen this before starting my project machine.

Marty

Ian, I don't think it would work, because what you are trying to accomplish is to get all the changewheels back, relative to one another, into the same "start position", and for threads foreign to the leadscrew this magic moment occurs only rarely because of the introduction of 57T or whatever into the train. It's something to do with highest common factors, or lowest common factors, I think (school was 40 years ago).

But do try; if your method works in practice, I will be delighted to be proved wrong!

Andy.

In vino veritas (hopefully)

steam4ian <fosterscons@...> wrote:
G'day John et al.
Thank you for replying. I have had a few moments to digest what you
are saying. Spindle angle is also important in the equation.

Thus the Spindle must be at a set angle, the saddle at a set position
and the LS at a set position for a repeatable outcome. The set
position of the LS is implicit in the half nuts being able to close
(assuming a single start thread on the LS). Missing from my
assessment was the spindle angle.

So you set up by putting the saddle against the stop, rotate the
lathe by hand to engage the half nut, mark the spindle against a
reference, mark the LS against a reference then take the first pass.
Subsequent passes would require the saddle to be against the stop,
the spindle to line up with its reference and the LS marker to line
up with its reference, engage the half nuts as the marks line up.

Please comment.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

Hi Ian,

You are making an assumption that when the lead screw is at a

specific

point when the spindle is at an equally repeatable location. That's
essentially how the thread chasing dial works. If you were cutting

a

thread that required engaging the half nut at any line it means

that the

lead screw and spindle are linked in multiples of your lead screw

pitch.

But if you are cutting a thread where the #3 position and only the

#3

position is the right place it's possible that the spindle is 90

degree

offset for the #2 position, 180 for the #1 position and 270 offset

for

the #4 position.

Now follow that same line of thinking for metric and you may find

that

the nut would have to be engaged at the #1 position the first

time. The

1.27 position the next time and so on.

John Dammeyer


Automation Artisans Inc.

Ph. 1 250 544 4950

---------------------------------
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Hello Chris and Ian,
Don't worry about the name, Ian - I'll answer to anything.
My "Warco WM180" is 7x 12, and shares a lot of features (saddle and everything above it) with a regular mini-lathe. It's twice as heavy, though - turns the scales at 11 stones (for US readers, there are 14 lbs to a stone, and for Aussies and those influenced by Napoleon it's 70kg). So, though the bed is more massive, it isn't exactly portable. From what I read in this group, it shares some of the features - or rather lack of them - of 8 x and 9 x machines. Notably, there's no tumbler reverse, but I'm working on that with some components which arrived with commendable speed from both LMS and ArcEuroTrade (LMS got them across the pond within 7 days, and AET got them to me by post 20 hours after my order)).
So, Chris, unless like me you are retired and can spend time on accessorising machine tools, I reckon you might be better getting a standard mini-lathe. I get the feeling that there are fewer complaints about the Sieg machines bought in the UK from people like Chester than about those bought in the US, but I may be wrong.
Andy

steam4ian <fosterscons@...> wrote:
G'day Chris.
CORRECTION. The guy was Andy Franks not Alan. My apologies Andy.
One good trun deserves another.
Regards,
Ian
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "steam4ian" <fosterscons@...>
wrote:

G'day Chris.
Have a look at the machines close-up if you can. A guy named Alan
from the UK sent me a picture of his lathe, I think it was a Chester,
and it had some significant improvements over the "standard" Sieg.

---------------------------------
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G'day John et al.
Thank you for replying. I have had a few moments to digest what you
are saying. Spindle angle is also important in the equation.

Thus the Spindle must be at a set angle, the saddle at a set position
and the LS at a set position for a repeatable outcome. The set
position of the LS is implicit in the half nuts being able to close
(assuming a single start thread on the LS). Missing from my
assessment was the spindle angle.

So you set up by putting the saddle against the stop, rotate the
lathe by hand to engage the half nut, mark the spindle against a
reference, mark the LS against a reference then take the first pass.
Subsequent passes would require the saddle to be against the stop,
the spindle to line up with its reference and the LS marker to line
up with its reference, engage the half nuts as the marks line up.

Please comment.

One good turn deserves another.
Regards,
Ian

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

Hi Ian,

You are making an assumption that when the lead screw is at a

specific

point when the spindle is at an equally repeatable location. That's
essentially how the thread chasing dial works. If you were cutting

a

thread that required engaging the half nut at any line it means

that the

lead screw and spindle are linked in multiples of your lead screw

pitch.

But if you are cutting a thread where the #3 position and only the

#3

position is the right place it's possible that the spindle is 90

degree

offset for the #2 position, 180 for the #1 position and 270 offset

for

the #4 position.

Now follow that same line of thinking for metric and you may find

that

the nut would have to be engaged at the #1 position the first

time. The

1.27 position the next time and so on.

John Dammeyer


Automation Artisans Inc.

Ph. 1 250 544 4950