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A form tool, or "forming" tool bit, has a particular shape ground into it for making a particular shape on the workpiece that would be hard to do with regular tool bits.

For instance, if you wanted to machine a 1/4" groove with an 1/8" radius at the bottom of the groove, you could grind a forming tool with that shape, just plunge cut in with it, and get that result.

Chuck K.

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 11:26:20AM -0500, Aaron Pasteris wrote:

The difference between inserts and a honed/polished HSS tool is night&day.

I guess brazed carbide must be pretty bad then because I've found inserts to
be a whole load better than those.

Plus, how do you get a form tool as an insert?

What's a form tool?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 10:48:43AM -0500, Kevin Jones wrote:

If I were to get a grinder and a stand of it, that's the best part of
$130 and that buys a lot of TCT inserts. We have a grinder at work but
all the H&S stuff associated with it means that I'm not allowed to use it
even if I did know what I'm doing.

$130 !!!! Wow you're definitely high maintenance :)

That's rip-off Britain for you! 30-35 quid for a 6" grinder, 30 quid for a
stand. You pay $400 for a lathe, we pay 400 quid despite it being ???1=$2 or
there abouts.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

Hi All,

I thought it might be better to continue the thread - I do not expect much will be said on this item.

I posted the temp rise on the HF 8x12-14 stock lathe motor with pulleys and gears engaged but no cutting. The next step was to see what the unloaded temp rise was. The belts were removed but the stock pulley was left on. The motor had unobstructed airflow and should be considered “new.” The ambient temp was 61.2F (16.2C).

05 min. – 12.1F (6.7C) rise
10 min. – 25.0F (13.9C)
15 min. – 35.6F (19.8C)
20 min. – 42.4F (23.6C)
30 min. – 53.0F (29.4C)
40 min. – 58.9F (32.7C)
50 min. – 62.2F (34.6C)
60 min. – 64.3F (35.7C)

This listing, and the one previously posted, indicate that the motor runs a tad on the hot side although within typical specifications (I don’t have the data sheet on the motor). The tests were run on a continuously running motor which might be a little unusual for most applications.

Again, this is just a little information for those who might wish it.

Take care,
DBN


Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

Point well taken.

I routinely use the hand-contact and counting rule and surprisingly it is rather accurate. However, without doubt, the motor is running on the hot side - of course, I am spolied by U.S. built motors, transformers, etc... When I worked for a German-based company some years ago, we replaced transformers and power diodes as often as one replaced fuses. Several reported that the ratings placed on the motors from China are at best suspicious or as some stated, pararphrased, China must have small horses. Nonetheless, if time permits, I'll run an unloaded test this weekend.

Thanks,
DBN

Ed Boysun <boysungran@...> wrote:

That really doesn't seem all that far out of line, to me. When being run
continously, most motors will be nearly hot to the touch. Generally, if
you can place your hand on them and count to 2, without being burned,
nothing will be hurt in the motor. I guess I should really check some of
my larger ones with an IR temp gun after they have run for a couple
hours, but I'd be surprised if they didn't run at least that warm.

Just looked at the plate on one of my water pump motors. That one is
thermally protected for 40C above ambient.

Ed B
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@...>
wrote:

Hi All,

For those who might find it "interesting" – I noticed the motor of
the HF 8x12-14 was a tad warm and thought a check was in order.

With a motor and ambient temp of 65F the lathe was turned on – no
metal turning. The probe was located on the upper part of the motor
housing, between the motor body and the junction box.

Without noting all of the readings, in the course of:
13 minutes – temp rise 39.3F;
30 minutes – 49.7F;
46 minutes – 58.1F;
63 minutes – 63F – shut-down motor
66 minutes – 65.7F

I didn't run the motor unloaded yet.

So the motor runs hot - an auxiliary fan might be in order.

Take care,
DBN

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On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 12:54:27PM -0000, Gordon wrote:

Go to Grizzly.com, they have alot of tooling for a decent price, Gordy

I think international shipping might soak up any savings I might make ;o)

In the long run I need to get a bigger shed. I already have to move the
bikes out of the shed to be able to machine anything. It'll do for now
though.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

On 3/10/07, born4something <ajs@...> wrote:

And my 8" grinder sits behind my lathe at the back of the bench.
Never been bolted down. I pull it out as and when needed. Wouldn't
be without. If space REALY limited me I'd still keep a 4" angle
grinder in a drawer.

John

Must be well balanced. My 6" grinder ($25 HF) walks right scross the
bench if it isn't bolted down.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
- fortune cookie

Mount a small grinder to a piece of 3/4" plywood (also works for the lathe) and store under your bench. Take out and clamp it to your table as needed.

I have both cabide and HSS tools. The carbide sits on the shelf until I need to cut something that is hard or too large to get the speed down to HSS range.

The difference between inserts and a honed/polished HSS tool is night&day. Plus, how do you get a form tool as an insert?

Aaron

If I were to get a grinder and a
stand of it, that's the best part of $130 and that buys a lot of TCT
inserts. We have a grinder at work but all the H&S stuff associated with it
means that I'm not allowed to use it even if I did know what I'm doing.

$130 !!!! Wow you're definitely high maintenance :)

Take a look at:

or for something really small


I picked up a 6" el cheap o Asian bench grinder at an ACE hardware sale for $20.00. It does not have to be a big investment. Also consider making it portable. Since you'll not be using it all the time then you can store it away.

Regards,
Kevin Jones
Louisville, KY

And my 8" grinder sits behind my lathe at the back of the bench.
Never been bolted down. I pull it out as and when needed. Wouldn't
be without. If space REALY limited me I'd still keep a 4" angle
grinder in a drawer.

John

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Michael Taglieri <miket--
nyc@...> wrote:

Inserts are basic in modern industry where every second counts,

but for a

hobby machinist they're a crutch to avoid having to learn how to

grind a

toolbit. You develop skill at that the same way you develop the

skill to

use a lathe, by practicing, and when you know how to grind a

decent bit

you'll be glad you learned because the result is more versatile

than

inserts and less expensive. I use inserts sometimes for taking

the skin

of cast-iron. Otherwise I have no need for them.

Concerning a space to do grinding, I have a 6" Harbor Freight

grinder

that I've used for many years by putting it over the kitchen sink

on a

piece of wire grating. The grating lets the swarf fall into the

sink to

be washed away, and water for cooling the bit is readily at hand.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"

I just started machining, had my mini-lathe a couple of weeks

and

only every
used a milling machine before. Everyone told me to just buy HSS
because
I'll get a better finish, the tooling is cheaper and I can grind

any

shape I
like. The only problem with this is that I don't have the space

for

a
grinder or the skill to do a decent job of grinding own tools.

Go to Grizzly.com, they have alot of tooling for a decent price, Gordy
--- In 7x12minilathe@..., Chris Eilbeck <chris@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:42:39PM -0600, Clint D wrote:

Chris

Harbor Freight has a small variable speed 3" grinder that I bought a
while back. it doesnt take much room at all and is great for the

bits

and other small things.I think the have it on sale often for a

little

over 20 bux at times.

I really don't have the space. I have enough for the lathe and a small
toolbox to the side of it and that's it. If I were to get a grinder

and a

stand of it, that's the best part of $130 and that buys a lot of TCT
inserts. We have a grinder at work but all the H&S stuff associated

with it

means that I'm not allowed to use it even if I did know what I'm

doing.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

Inserts are basic in modern industry where every second counts, but for a
hobby machinist they're a crutch to avoid having to learn how to grind a
toolbit. You develop skill at that the same way you develop the skill to
use a lathe, by practicing, and when you know how to grind a decent bit
you'll be glad you learned because the result is more versatile than
inserts and less expensive. I use inserts sometimes for taking the skin
of cast-iron. Otherwise I have no need for them.

Concerning a space to do grinding, I have a 6" Harbor Freight grinder
that I've used for many years by putting it over the kitchen sink on a
piece of wire grating. The grating lets the swarf fall into the sink to
be washed away, and water for cooling the bit is readily at hand.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:42:39PM -0600, Clint D wrote:

Chris

Harbor Freight has a small variable speed 3" grinder that I bought a
while back. it doesnt take much room at all and is great for the bits
and other small things.I think the have it on sale often for a little
over 20 bux at times.

I really don't have the space. I have enough for the lathe and a small
toolbox to the side of it and that's it. If I were to get a grinder and a
stand of it, that's the best part of $130 and that buys a lot of TCT
inserts. We have a grinder at work but all the H&S stuff associated with it
means that I'm not allowed to use it even if I did know what I'm doing.

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

It was Ralph Patterson who made the "knockoff," which is quite ingenious
You can probably get it from him, or find it in the 7x10minilathe photo
section.

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"


On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:27:19 -0000 "born4something"
<ajs@...> writes:

I'm on my original fuse but not the original fuse holder, which self
destructed one day during a job. I replaced the POS with a US made fuse
holder and went back to using the original fuse. (I did buy some spares
at at www.allelectronics.com, just in case. No trouble finding them
there).

Mike Taglieri miket--nyc@...

Everyone has his reasons.
- Jean Renoir "The Rules of the Game"


On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:46:55 -0000 "born4something"
<ajs@...> writes:

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Jim RabidWolf" <unclerabid@...>
wrote:

and yes, it seems chinese ponies are a bit smaller.

Jim RabidWolf

Small ponies. Small riders. I have the same issue with Asian origin
tents. If you want a 3-man tent you buy a 4-man. But it's just like an
inch machinist handling metric. Once you know the conversion factors...

John

Chinese motors tend to run awfully hot - it's natural for them due to their
constrcution - that goes for both the ac and dc motors (and yes, it seems
chinese ponies are a bit smaller).

Jim RabidWolf
Uncle Rabid ( )
We Repair Electronic Speed Controllers
For Asian Mini Lathes and Mini Mills
"Just Crazy Enough To Get the Job Done"

Chris

Harbor Freight has a small variable speed 3" grinder that I bought a
while back. it doesnt take much room at all and is great for the bits
and other small things.I think the have it on sale often for a little
over 20 bux at times.
I have never regretted buying it

Clint


Chris Eilbeck wrote:

5 amp, 5x20mm - MGA. Not too common in the States, I'm guessing. Most glass fuses in the U.S. are 1/4" diameter by various lengths and amperages.

I've also decided I need to get some aluminum or CRS to play with. The mini-lathe not having the torque of some bigger machines reduces 416 stainless rather slowly. It'll do it but it is slow - especially making a 6.5° taper with the compound slide. But where else can you have that kind of fun on a Friday night (and on the wife's birthday, no less)? 8-)

Pete

Hi Pete, Frank,

Not sure what fuses you guys have but my Sieg machine has what I
regard as a fairly standard 20x5mm type. Are Sieg fitting multiple
fuse styles or are 20M5 just more unusual in your area? Here
(Australia) they've largly displaced the old 3AG clunkers.

John



--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "nyceacres200"
<nyceacres200@...> wrote:

--Hi Pete,
Not sure where you can get fuses, other than micro mark or LMS,

but

they're probably available. What I wanted to say though, is you
might want to consider changing the fuse holder to a better one

that

takes standard size fuses. I had problems with my lathe shutting

off

occaisionally, and traced it to the fuse holder. It had actually
split in half! It's a real piece of junk! I put in a standard one

of

much higher quality and the fuse issue was solved. To me the stock
one is so bad, it could almost be dangerous! Good luck.

Frank

- In 7x12minilathe@..., "Pete Lilja" <plilja@> wrote:

Uh-Oh, I was finally playing with my newly purchased used Micro-

Mark 7 x 14 and popped a fuse. No big deal, methinks, and I

stopped

at the local Ace Hardware to get another. Much to my chagrine

they

didn't have a similarly sized fuse.

So, what is the deal on these fuses? Are they a rare find or

can

I get them locally?

Thanks,

Pete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul,

I was contemplating one of those tangential holders. I think David
1/2d posted a link here a while back. Or was it on the c0 group?
Anyway, it's www.eccentricengineering.com.au. I gotta promote a
fellow Aussie! Allegiances aside, it looks a very interesting
product.

John


--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "paul_probus"
<paul_probus@...> wrote:

Let me throw in my $0.02 here. Granted, I used it on a larger
lathe, I found about the best compromise to a HSS "insert" using a
standard HSS toolbit is the diamond toolholder. Don't know how

well

it works with these small lathes (probably have to cut the bit in
1/2 or smaller), but holding the bit tangentially allows you many
more resharpenings before you have to toss the bit. Someone had a
drawing of a knockoff they made for their 7x, I believe. The
advantage is that once you've ground the "diamond" shape,
resharpening is quick and easy and while you won't get the same

kind

of repeatability as an insert if you have resharpen after you've
started turning, it is better than the usual sharpening method,

IMHO.

Paul

--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "born4something" <ajs@>
wrote:

Hi Rance,

I bought both HSS and a set of carbide tools. I work mainly with
steel (and stainless). Later I read that carbide is a bit of a

pain

on these small lathes as it's prone to digging in, stalling and
chipping whereas HSS is more tolerant. Well, that was my

experience

too. That said, my tool post was less than rigid and I've since
lapped gibs, etc. with a vast improvement in that department.

But

HSS is infinitely more flexible.

Not so sure about the relative costs. I suspect it depends on

where

you shop. Cheapest I've seen for HSS in the US was Enco (www.use-
enco.com) but their freight options to Australia were crippling.

In

Australia I pick them up on eBay from Ozmestore1 (check item
250091086115). Also, when comparing cost you may like to weigh

up

the 3 or 4 lives you get by rotating a carbide tip versus the

number

of times a HSS tool can be sharpened. Don't be put off HSS by

the

need to master sharpening. It's not that difficult to master and
you'll eventually find you need those skills anyway. Best use I
found for carbide was as a performance benchmark to compare my

HSS

creations against!

John





--- In 7x12minilathe@..., "rancerupp" <rupps@> wrote:

I'm looking for accessories in anticipation of my 8x12 HF

purchase.

I thought Carbide would be better but HSS seems to cost more.

Why?

And

which one should I opt for? To tell you the truth, I'm

thinking

that

the inserts would be the best route. But picking the right

ones

out

seems to be a nightmare.

I expect I'll be turning mostly alum. but also brass, copper,

and

a

little bit of steel.

Rance